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if you check the fencer borads there are a ton of posts asking "how to beat those pesky TKA's that are always kicking my a**."
or sometimes you see a post 'YAY! I BEAT MY FIRST TKM TODAY!!...(after weeks of trying)'
Like I said. For every one person complaining about a TKA I see a TKA complaining about a fencer.
Fencers have the highest defenses out of all melee classes. Add up the numbers. I'm not making this up. If you refute me you refute facts. It's simple math. Take all the numbers from all the defensive boxes and add them up. Fencers will come out ahead in nearly every category.
A fencer with COB and their high dodge is a force to be reckoned with. Oh and the fencer who beat 5 TKA's. . . I read that in the fencer forums. 
Here is a link done by the brawler correspondant about the new skill mods.
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~stgabrie/melee_trees.html
However because I'm a stickler for numbers I have to to comment on this:
Fencers have the highest defenses out of all melee classes. Add up the numbers. I'm not making this up.
It depends on what numbers you are comparing.
TKM Toughness: 57 (62)
Master Fencer Toughness: 32 (37)
The numbers in parens are the numbers with master brawler. The fencer will take 58% (65%) more damage from a melee hit.
Melee defense prevents hits. The basic formula for attacking accuracy is:
chance_to_hit = 66% + (accuracy - defense) / 2 + situational_modifiers
A master fencer has a 79 melee defense and a 150 accuracy. A TKM has a a 60 melee defense and a 205 accuracy. That means that without situational modifiers, a TKM has a 129% chance to hit a Master Fencer . The fencer has a 111% chance of hitting the TKM. Melee defense unfortunately is not that useful unless you stack multiple classes to obtain a very high value, especially against the very high accuracy of TKM's and Fencers (other classes go as low as 110 accuracy).
Where Fencers do have a large advantage is with dodge. However we can't really be sure what the status of TKA defense acuity is. Right now it is either not working or is very poor. If this were made to work and were in close to as useful as Dodge/CoB is for a fencer, then defensively I think that a fencer wouldn't be so hot comparatively.
StGabe.
Message Edited by StGabriel on 12-17-2003 03:12 PM
We have 2 attacks that do it, just not on command - area 3 and hit 3 both dish out dizzy
Only trouble is that people in PvP like fencers and TKA have a high resistensce to dizzy, thats why it takes like 10 tries to land one on them, after that good luck if you can get them to posture change.
I think dizzy is the worst thing to happen to SWG, i'd much rather see it slow a target by half its speed or something instead of being the " I WIN " button. KD / Dizzy is the whole reason TKA and fencer get so griefed all the time.
As a Rifleman working his way to Swordsman (25k XP to Novice Swordsman, wohoo!), I would not mind seeing a Dizzy effect in this tree as well, but frankly, I would not miss it either. That is not because I have it with Rifle specials, but because it does not impress me that much. Here is why.
With Rifle, I have two specials that cause Dizzy, Flurryshot1(single target)and Flurryshot2 (area effect). While it is fun when it works, in my experience, more often than not, it takes quite a few shots to get it to take. When the effect does take, it requires a voluntary posture change to have a chance to cause a knockdown (i.e., a forced posture change itself does not appear to have any effect). In PvE, Dizzy has no real effect on non-humanoids (they may get dizzy, but I have never seen it KD a creature). And against NPCs, I have seen them bob up and down with a Dizzy and never get KDed. Even when it does KD them, there is a good chance, depending on the NPC of course, that they will get right back up. Since I do not PvP much, I cannot attest to its effectiveness there, but I can say this. Unless the player does a voluntary posture change, it has no effect, and even if it achieves a KD from the Dizzy, the KDed player can spam stand up and get up reasonably quickly.
The bottom line is that it is certainly fun to pop off an AE dizzy, fight off those who come after you and then come back and find an NPC still flat on his back from getting KDed early by the Dizzy, but unless I am in a group and have the luxury to pound away with a Dizzy special to make it stick and deal with the fact that even if it does stick, it may not matter, my time is better spent dealing out damage with higher damage specials or by targeting Mind.
Thus, a Dizzy effect would certainly add to the profession, but it is not particularly effective in my experience.
I know you you guys will prob. flame me, but just a reality check. I know that money is a big factor in many of you toons life, but remember these x-mas holos were free.If you don't want to use then you should pass them off to people that really need them.
I will be the first to say, If I have any holocrons in my inventory when it goes silent I will give them away to someone. That it the spirt of the jedi, and the purpose for what these are being handed out for. Yea I may miss out on a million credits, but I have been there before, and will be there again so it is not worth it to me. I would rather help someone else achive their dream.
