CUEmu - Thread Posts

VemaGara

Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:27 am

The 2nd time around is always easier. You already know the tricks.

Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)

Ducimus

Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:51 am

#15

SW1 wrote:
This another misstep by the devs. They are alienating the average gamer by making Jtl super hard and forcing them to stop levelling.

I only play about two hours a day.
Once you understand how various aspects of JTL works, it becomes alot easier. Powergaming has nothing to do with it.

Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies
"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession

Skuzz

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:51 am

#16

Well i mastered Privateer with my main toon in about 1 week. My second toon im pulling thru alliance pilot now and its going a bit slower, i think this is partly due to the fact that the rebel ships just arent as good as the privateer ones, especially at lower levels. theres no beating the Dunelizard at lower levels.

I think some folks are just more adept at space sim shooter type games then others, and thats natural. There are few things that challenge my master pilot at this point, but i know plenty of folks that find JTL extremely challenging even late in their piloting career.

So i dont think anything needs to be made easier OR harder, there just needs to be options available for both types of players. Toss some 'non-mandatory' content in their to sate the JTL whiz's and add some lower level stuff for the folks that are having a rough time with things as is. Any sweeping alterations to JTL overall will inevitably enrage one or the other so this is the only safe bet perhaps.

But for the record, i still love jtl and think its an amazing addition to SWG.

Unless they nerf space loot again of course...



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WOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWO

Dru_McNasty

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:29 pm

#17

Not everyone finds JtL to be easy. You have to consider that there are people with less skills than you when dealing with "twitch" skills in spacee. Especialy in a game that was fundamentally based on RPG commands. You will see other threads here where some folks are struggling and getting discouraged.

I found the challenge level to be appropriate on average andI have been playing since launch. With the AI changes, I feel that it was a matter of fun factorand not challenge factor. The fist AI was predictable and boring. And the jousting was not fun at all. But now I thinkthe AIis the best that can currently be programmed within the scope of this game and its genre.

I think we forget that there are no airplanes in Everquest that players can fly. In WoW you can ride a bird like creaturebut I don't think you can control it or use it to attack things. City of Heroes, there are no invisible jets for the Wonder Woman wannabes. And soon, will you get to fly a helicopter in the Matrix Online? I don't think so.SWG is the onlyhuge game of this genrethat has this unique space simulation of small ships that requires twitch skills.

For someone that has good reflexes and can learn games quickly, then yes JtL will be easy. But for fans of MMOs who have not had the chance to learn or develop their twitch skills then this will seem hard. I see a big divide on my server as on average those that are good at PvP on the ground don't like and/or are not great or as good in space as they are on the ground. For me I am just the opposite, I think I am a fairly good pilot, but on the ground I can easily get "pwnd". I think the DEVs recognized that and delivered a game that would be a new challenge for casual gamers without being to hard for them. Yet, advanced players of flight simsmay not find it to be so challenging.

This is not intended to be a flame, just making you aware that hard or easy is a matter of perspective. If the game was more challenging for you then it would probably be impossible for many other people.

______________________
Dru McNastian
South Vilas, Corellia

/checkJediStatus
System Message: You a Jedi!!?? You must be joking.
______________________

Wystery

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:54 pm

#18

If you think it is easy, ace a pilot profession. Then drop it, and try again in another squad/planet. You will be pleasantly surprised

Colonel Goldy Different
MSL MBH
Imperial Inquisition
Ahazi

aka

Sokepe
Master Fencer Master Ranger
Scylla

EnZoFiRe

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:21 pm

#19

If you think it's too easy, it's time for you to move on to other things. And congrats on your achievement.

IF YOU SEE ME COMING FOR YOU, IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE

Ikka
CL80+ ??SOMETHING??

Chodo235

Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:46 pm

#20

Try fighting a gunboat and 4 x-wings with a interceptor that has lvl 4 components..

that will keep you busy.

Narreem0884

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:20 pm

#21

Or try taking out an Tier 4 Imperial YE-4 Gunboat and his 9 Tier 4 TIE escort in enough time to save the Nym fighters that they're mercilessly blasting away at. Almost every Tier 4 rebel mission has this type of scenario. Too many TIE's, too little help. I am never dropping my master pilot box once I earn it.

"Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett - Tales of the Bounty Hunters
Narreem the Wookiee
Rebel Colonel, Vortex Ace Pilot, Master Pikeman

Dru_McNasty

Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:05 am

#22

MikeMonger1 wrote:

So what you're saying is, EVERYBODY, regardless of skill, should be able to grind pilot all the way to master, eh?

I answer that question by saying YES. And I think the DEVs agree. Because there are no skill point costs. You do not have to give up any profession that you already have to become an Ace. Master Pilot is not intended to be rare like jedi which is locked from the start.And you don't have to grindas much as you do for Jedi IMO. I think anyone that plops down $30 or whatever to buy this "Expansion" should be able to master at a reasonable level.

Should they give away Master? NO, It needs to be a challange. Its needs to keep you interest and make you work for it. ButI think that the DEVs decided to make thissomewhat easier in order for most players to get Master. There are parts of the prof trees that are grind intensive but it is not the same formost of them. I believe the DEVs recognized that a majority of the base were not going to be great at flight sims, so their goal was to make it accesable and not so hard.If the game was more of a challenge for you it would be impossible for many others. SOE would rather have a few "It's tooeasy" complaints than a whole lot of "It's too hard!" complaints.

However,I dont think anyone has to worry about the challenge level getting reduced. I seriously doubt that it will ever be as easy as point and click. As more people get the hang of it there will be a sense that space has been conquered. And hopefully the DEVs will give use some more advnaced content in space, but for now the attention is on making it work for the mases.

There is also the PvP issue that needs to be dealt with and of course the bugs. But I think the challenge level now is appropriate. And I will do whatI can to help others master. Master Pilot is an Equal Opputunity Employer.

______________________
Dru McNastian
South Vilas, Corellia

/checkJediStatus
System Message: You a Jedi!!?? You must be joking.
______________________

MikeMonger1

Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:50 am

#23

Dru_McNasty wrote:

MikeMonger1 wrote:

So what you're saying is, EVERYBODY, regardless of skill, should be able to grind pilot all the way to master, eh?

I answer that question by saying YES.

And again, if that's the case, then please explain to me WHY it's twitch based? I read your post, and what it boils down to is this:

Skill level is irrelevent. Everyone who wants it should be a master pilot.

So, if skill level is irrelevent, in a skill based game, then what's the point of the game?

MikeMonger1

Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:00 am

#24

LRRCP wrote:

Yes and those people who are hard core sim players will get no challenge out of a AI ever, either they have to be swamped in which those players with lowSituational Awareness would get creamed while the Vet runs a fighting retreat.

I'm not a hard core sim player, but I do have SOME twitch based skill. So people like me aren't supposed to get any challenge out of AI either?

The only real challenge will be another player for those who are skilled at these type of games.

So only PvPer'sare allowed toget any challenge?

I mean come on this is a arcade simulator, not a true one, you can not use flight sim maneuvers in it as speed does not drop in turns or climb type maneuvers.

Uh, this is a SPACE sim, not a flight sim. Speed won't drop because there's no gravity or atmosphere. However, you can't turn as tightly at high speeds as you can low.

If you are not being challenged enough down grade your equipment till you are, like try a tier 1 ship in kessel or deep space.

So, in other words, use crappy equipment so that the no-skill people can make master,and us fair-to-middlen skill people get no challenge. That makes, uh, sense.

The top fighter ace of all time only had 352 kills.

Your point being? The top fighter ace of all time flew prop driven aircraft and shot bullets at people. He didn't fly around in space and lob energy blasts at his enemies. Oh,and that was REAL LIFE. Most cops never pull their guns in real life, much less shoot anybody. I guess Max Payne and games like that are completely irrelevent. Oh, wait. Yes, they are, because they're GAMES, and what happens in games can't be compared to what happens in real life.

NACHODEWI

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:09 pm

#25

MikeMonger wrote:

So what you're saying is, EVERYBODY, regardless of skill, should be able to grind pilot all the way to master, eh?

JTL is FAR from super hard. Some people are just better atspace sim games than others. I know I'm not that good at them myself, but with only one or two wingman, I was able to complete all my missions. Then, 5 or 6 of us went after the vette for master at the same time, and with that many, it blows up real easy.

Are you even paying attention to the complaints people have? People should be able to master their profession! Its totally retarded to set up the game system so people have to waste time begging others to spend several hours helping them to master their professions. Use commonse sense for a minute! Did anyone have to beg for help to master their ground profession? No! I Mastered BH on my own. I probably would have never mastered it if the JTL retarded forced grouping was implemented for the ground game. I have no problem with forced grouping for the high end content BUT mastering your profession is NOT HIGH END CONTENT! Unless the devs implemented the forced grouping difficulty to cover the fact that there is no high end content. Their policy will backfire in the long run.

Dweibokyt RotaenMaster Bounty Hunter

Kylroi

Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:55 pm

#26

There is a basic flaw in your argument that this is a space sim and shouldn't be subject to gravity and such. Given those facts (that space flight isn't like atmosphere flight) then not one single ship in space could even remotely turn the way they do now. The space combat system we use is not based on fact, it's based on the vision of one George Lucas.

Now, as for the pilot ace skills. I agree that there should be some challenge to them. I say some, not "you need an armada to complete this task" challenge. Before I found myself suffering from the "drunken bee" problem in JtL, I was quite capable of holding my own against the ships in my mission(s), but had no choice but to ask for help because there was no way to kill/disable all the ships and stay with the transport I was supposed to be escorting. I never took damage (they barely scratched my shields, really), but they sheer number of ships they threw at me was too much. And that was on my first tier 3 mission. Now, here I am, roughly 2 months later, still waiting for SOE to fix this bug so I can find out I need 2+ helpers to complete anything else? No offense, but that's not what I call fun. Fun is being able to overtake the mission with some difficulty (I tried 5 times before getting help on my last mission). As it's been pointed out, JtL is an expansion of SWG. The basic rules should be the same. Sure, I got help to master my marksman profession, but that was only because I wanted to go fight larger mobs than I was ready to tackle on my own. I could have done it on my own, given enough time. An ace pilot, however, has been pretty much set up for only those who excel in space flight sims. If you aren't an awesome pilot, then you get punished by not being able to advance. Ok, fine, I see logic behind that. This isn't supposed to be a real-life sim, so why should it work that way? And if it is to work that way, then why hasn't the ground game been mangled by the exact same restrictions? I have a macro for looting a corpse. I can sit just outside of Coronet on a meatlump or ragtag spawn and do nothing but hit my F12 key (for my macro). I have max'd 2 different exp lines and advanced several skills in smuggler by doing nothing but press F12 (other than going to get healed a few times and getting trained). Are you all saying that I should have to give all that exp back, surrender skills, and search for 2 or 3 other people to help me before looking to regain all of it? If not, then why not? Skills are skills. Why should ground skills be masterable solo for all while space skills are only masterable solo for some?

I just want to see game altering bugs fixed or I'll stop wasting time/money on anything from SOE. Sadly, I suspect my current subscription period to be my last. I know 3 other EQ/SWG players, and have been told that SOE caters to the power gamer (someone, generally, with no life except the online game), thus the bugs effecting a small percentage are generally ignored (if not added to, as they add more junk to satisfy the whining power gamer who blasted through everything and is now bored).

End rant.

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