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That's what I've been saying from day one. I'd rather have a single stick with a twist handle than a HOTAS setup when it comes to a game like this.

In space sims, yaw is God.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 10-04-2004 03:00 AM

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KaylBreinhar wrote:
Let me tell you, though - it's very difficult to get used to a true HOTAS system. Additionally, if you're buying a HOTAS setup just to play JTL, you need to be shot.

I'm going to use a Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 Pro for JTL and leave my TM Cougar for FS2004, Lock On, and IL-2.

Some of you won't like it even if you like the look of it. Be sure to buy it from someplace you can easily return it to if it doesn't feel right.

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I was actually looking at an X45 as my next purchase, though not strictly for JTL, as you say. However, the addition to the Flight-sim type roster was an influence, as now for the first time the majority of my games will be flight oriented.

How bad is the learning curve? Trying out the X45 on display, it just felt right, and I was imagining the macro possibilities of the buttons, not to mention the mouse stick that would allow me to drive ground vehicles with my stick.

Give us a run-down

I need to know if it'll take 2 weeks or two months to get the feel for this stick - Not master, just be able to survive

Personally, who needs it? JTLS plays better without a complex joystick system, plus the x45 was very troublesome, getting it to work with windows, games and others was a big pain. All you need for jtls is a standard joystick with rudder and a throttle, that easy, and you can spend 40$ for that and get a great stick...

I paid 90$ for my mouse, and I will never buy a x45 or any other new one

The biggest difficulty involved from going to a HOTAS setup from a joystick/keyboard setup is the prospect of getting used to a true "hands-off-keyboard" setup.

Each button on a true HOTAS (Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick, in case you were wondering) system can correspond to multiple functions. On the Cougar, there are nearly 100 programmable areas of the stick and throttle that can be set up for single keypresses or insanely complex macros. Once you get the hang of a HOTAS system you don't even have to LOOK at your keyboard again, let alone touch it.

The X52 doesn't look as robust as the Cougar when it comes to buttons, but rest assured, you're going to have a lot of buttons to memorize. Some people get flustered and end up using the throttle merely as a power gate - neglecting all the buttons on the stick because they don't want to take the time to memorize the functions each button corresponds to (or they don't want to waste their time programming the stick).

The other difficulty is stick movement and the "newness" of using both hands at once on foreign objects. This takes a LOT of getting used to, and it's nothing like typing with two hands. You'll find yourself taking your hand off the throttle a lot, because it'll feel supremely unnatural to have it glued there and not pressing keys on the keyboard or hanging idle. (EDIT: Make damn sure you're comfortable and design your deskspace around not having to REACH or perform another unnatural movement to properly use a setup. Ideally you don't want to have your hands above your heart to work both sticks).

Oh yeah - make sure you've got the room on your desk before buying something like this...and NEVER...NEVEREVEREVERNEVER...put both controls on different elevations (like the throttle on your keyboard tray/shelf and the yoke on the desk). It completely screws up your spatial recognition and coordination.

Before you even go out on a "first flight" it's smart to spend a few minutes or so practicing moving the throttle along its axis while moving the yoke in a circular motion without looking down and pressing buttons at the same time. You need to see if you can get used to the manual equivalent of walking, chewing gum, dribbling a basketball, and dialing a cell phone at the same time outside of a game, before you decide to actually use this thing for something more complicated.

Also, getting a sim like FS2002 (bargain bin now) or FS2004 (about 24.99 if you know where to look) will be a great help, as they have tutorial modes. The last thing you want to do is break yourself into a HOTAS setup on a combat sim where people are shooting at you - it'll tick you off and it isn't a learning environment. You need training wheels first in an open free-flight environment before you can truly unlock the potential of a true hands-on setup in a combat sim.

(Sometimes this is all for naught - even dedicated "stick jockeys" find themselves dickering with the keyboard when they're fully versed on their setups. It'll happen, it's just an instinctive thing.)

You might think it looks really good now, but my advice stands pat: buy it from somewhere you know you can return it to if you don't like it - some people just don't have the minds, patience, or coordination to truly make a HOTAS setup shine and end up wasting the setup's potential (and a large chunk of their money).

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 10-04-2004 05:26 PM

Thanks for the help guys

and to you Karl, thank you for the information. it was all useful and made me think a little bit more about gettign a HOTAS system and i still want one. I am slightly used to playing with one specifically the X-45 but what would u say in terms of the twist stick? the X-45 has that on teh throttle and the X-52 has it on the main joystick. I prefer on the main joystick even though sometimes u roll when u want to turn. so which would u recommend for a game like JTL?

Hey

Does Anyone have the X-52? im thinking of buying it and would like to know if anyway has it and how it plays JTL. Thanks