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Thread: You know, for all the people who moaned when Kessel was made PvE...
darmokVtS wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
If not they have to provide another pvp zone
I still see no reason WHY deepspace isn't used.
Because it takes a master pilot, prestige points to get there and screws neutrals.
- We don't make master tags requirements to pvp in the ground game why in space?
- why should players have to grind 30k of xp everytime they want to pvp? That's forced pve'ing for pvp- which is the exact opposite of what the pve community was complaining about regarding kessel & master missions.
- Plus neutral pilots can pvp against both factions there - they have to pick a side. They can no longer roleplay as pirates or police which is surely half the point of going neutral in the first place.
faction-related PvP is different from free for all (ffa) PvP.
It has a charme of its own to know that each encounter c a n potentially
end up in a duell situation. I consider the switch of Kessel's rule set
as a true loss. On the other side i understand the decission, because of
of the game-breaking issues for "pacifists" doing their master skill.
It was utterly wrong to locate skill progression content in a ffa PvP zone.
This was stated over and over by the beta-community, unfortunately whith no
effect. Problem would be solved if the master skill content was removed from
kessel, or an additional zone was added.
As stated above, i do not moan, i do not whine, i understand why we at least
temporarily have to accept this, but still i consider the loss of the only
ffa PvP zone as a true loss for the overall gameexperience. SOE's decision to
implement a true ffa PvP zone was couragious and correct and should not be
withdrawn for ever.
NewEco wrote:
let's face it :
faction-related PvP is different from free for all (ffa) PvP.
It has a charme of its own to know that each encounter c a n potentially
end up in a duell situation. I consider the switch of Kessel's rule set
as a true loss. On the other side i understand the decission, because of
of the game-breaking issues for "pacifists" doing their master skill.
It was utterly wrong to locate skill progression content in a ffa PvP zone.
This was stated over and over by the beta-community, unfortunately whith no
effect. Problem would be solved if the master skill content was removed from
kessel, or an additional zone was added.
As stated above, i do not moan, i do not whine, i understand why we at least
temporarily have to accept this, but still i consider the loss of the only
ffa PvP zone as a true loss for the overall gameexperience. SOE's decision to
implement a true ffa PvP zone was couragious and correct and should not be
withdrawn for ever.
well said.
meeuki wrote:
prestige is a non issue. 30k prestige is peanuts and 1 or 2 days of playing normally will give you a prestige nest egg that you'll never have to concern yourself with again.
Actaully its not a non-issue. 30k prestige isn't much to someone who plays a this game alot but to the casual gamer its enough to make them not bother to pvp regulary as for every pvp session they have to play for half an hour to get enough xp to be involved. For example I can easily envision myself at some point only going into space for pvp sessions or for travelling between planets.
The rest of your post I agree with - although I probably would have been politer 
NewEco wrote:
let's face it :
faction-related PvP is different from free for all (ffa) PvP.
It has a charme of its own to know that each encounter c a n potentially
end up in a duell situation. I consider the switch of Kessel's rule set
as a true loss. On the other side i understand the decission, because of
of the game-breaking issues for "pacifists" doing their master skill.
It was utterly wrong to locate skill progression content in a ffa PvP zone.
This was stated over and over by the beta-community, unfortunately whith no
effect. Problem would be solved if the master skill content was removed from
kessel, or an additional zone was added.
As stated above, i do not moan, i do not whine, i understand why we at least
temporarily have to accept this, but still i consider the loss of the only
ffa PvP zone as a true loss for the overall gameexperience. SOE's decision to
implement a true ffa PvP zone was couragious and correct and should not be
withdrawn for ever.
KaylBreinhar wrote:
...you sure aren't *acting* like you're upset.
I've been overt in Kessel every time out now (not much to do since Ace except loot hunt, cap FP, and PvP), and only run into Rebel overts *twice* since the switchover.
So unless you're overting when you enter Kessel, stop complaining that it was changed.
My only complaint was that, as a smuggler, I didn't have to pick a side to PvP, thus allowing me to continue to RP my smuggler. Now, I can't PvP without picking a side, thus effectively ending my roleplay. I don't PvP just to PvP.
IC: "Rebels and Imperials have cops that try to steal what I've rightfully stolen! If either one tries to stop me, I'm fighting! I don't care who they worship, or what their hokey religion is!!"
OC: Can't do that if I have to pick a side.
DND_Cas wrote:
meeuki wrote:
prestige is a non issue. 30k prestige is peanuts and 1 or 2 days of playing normally will give you a prestige nest egg that you'll never have to concern yourself with again.Actaully its not a non-issue. 30k prestige isn't much to someone who plays a this game alot but to the casual gamer its enough to make them not bother to pvp regulary as for every pvp session they have to play for half an hour to get enough xp to be involved. For example I can easily envision myself at some point only going into space for pvp sessions or for travelling between planets.
The rest of your post I agree with - although I probably would have been politer
actually, it IS a non issue because it doesn't take a half hour to get 30k prestige.
the only way it would be an issue is if you were an extremely casual gamer (15-30 minutes a night) AND you spend your time primarily running to kessel, paying the fee, then dying before you can kill anything.
keep in mind that you get around 4k prestige for killing a tier 4 mob. give or take. so that's 8 or so tier 4 mobs, or camping a spawn for 3 or 4 minutes. if you are imperial you can get 30k prestige from the 6 mobs circling the frigate outside the endor station. once you are in kessel, a vette is worth 43k prestige. solo a vette and it's escorts? you've now amassed nearly 100k prestige. generally, after an average half hour in deep space i've probably earned 200k prestige, at least.
it does not take long to bank hundreds of thousands of prestige points, like i said above, a nest egg that makes charging to enter deep space a useless formality.
i'm not in favor of it, i don't understand the mentality behind it, but it's not a hardship, and if it is, your piloting skills need some brushing up on, because you should be able to get 30k prestige in a couple minutes.
DND_Cas wrote:
NewEco wrote:
let's face it :
faction-related PvP is different from free for all (ffa) PvP.
It has a charme of its own to know that each encounter c a n potentially
end up in a duell situation. I consider the switch of Kessel's rule set
as a true loss. On the other side i understand the decission, because of
of the game-breaking issues for "pacifists" doing their master skill.
It was utterly wrong to locate skill progression content in a ffa PvP zone.
This was stated over and over by the beta-community, unfortunately whith no
effect. Problem would be solved if the master skill content was removed from
kessel, or an additional zone was added.
As stated above, i do not moan, i do not whine, i understand why we at least
temporarily have to accept this, but still i consider the loss of the only
ffa PvP zone as a true loss for the overall gameexperience. SOE's decision to
implement a true ffa PvP zone was couragious and correct and should not be
withdrawn for ever./agreeThe problem with it is that people get into habits. If players were only sticking around for JTL pvp and then easy access to that pvp is revoked early on and not restored quickly we have a problem. I guess its a case of how long it takes for SOE to sort out the Master mission location.However I would still like to see them tackle some of the pvp issues in PvE zones.
it wouldn't even be so bad if they had contested POIs in normal space. like points or something awarded for assaulting rebel bases, or something to that effect. the problem is all the PVE zones have no centralized location for players to go. the original poster commented on kessel, i would never even consider going over to kessel. it's a pve area. there's no objective there, it's the same as wandering around every other zone looking for overts.
hell, it wouldn't even be so bad if they did some kind of loading screen asking overt players to contest a factioned POI, just SOMETHING that points players in a direction. it's rediculous they (the devs) haven't done something like that. there is literally no endgame whatsoever in JTL save PVP and the difficulty of deep space's gunboat/escort/vette combos.
DND_Cas wrote:
darmokVtS wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
The main one being that not being able to easily tell the difference between pvp & pve ships.
There is a command bindable 'target next enemy PLAYER' or something like this, this will never target undeclared enemy players, works for me.
Message Edited by darmokVtS on 11-19-2004 03:27 PM
Personally I find it a bit intermittant but yes it is at least a partial solution to the problem.
However if a pve player and pvp player are both firing at you (and neither are the closest craft to you) - you have a 50/50 chance of guessing which one is overt and which one isn't. That means death in pvp as it is currently. The problem is it just simply takes too long to figure out who is overt and who isn't and by the time you have generally your dead.
I'm not whining - its just a major problem that needs to be resolved. If they switch kessel back at some point in the near future (and by near I mean in the next publish) then its not too much of a problem. If not they have to provide another pvp zone or change the rules, otherwise pvp is going to die before it starts, so that :
- It easier for overts to identify other overts
- pve players cannot interfere with pvp ones (i.e. they become transparent and don't block shots aimed at other overt craft).
This inability to distinguish between overts and non-overts in factional craft was exactly what I and others warned about before Beta when we cautioned against letting people fly around in factional craft without being overt. No one listened at all. They hadn't played space sim games ever or had forgotten the rules: There is no up and down. Targeting the closest enemy is not a solution.
I understand the reasons for not having people face PvP all the time, however. The all-PvP zone was supposed to be the compromise. At least then you'd have a zone that, while incredibly dangerous, would have rules of engagement that were perfectly clear. No longer.
Wanna gank a multiplayer ship good? Try this trick: Get eight players to have ships that look exactly alike, paint kits down to the last detail. Half of you declare overt. The other half stays covert. Then swarm around a multi-player ship and light it up.
Oh sure, you can tab the nearest enemy, but you'll always have ships swarming around you. Some of those ships you can shoot, others you can't. The turret gunners won't know what the hell to do. It's hilarious.