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Thread: Just a comment about all the crying about PvP or No PvP or PvE..whatever
it's like when those "credit dupers" got banned. you had one side saying "good!" and the other side saying "now wait a minute, that's bullsh*t they just ban people who didn't do anything" and then you'd hear replies saying "what? you like credit duping? idiot"
meeuki wrote:
in fact, i don't remember reading a single post asking for kessel to be PVE. pretty much everyone was sensible about it.
it's like when those "credit dupers" got banned. you had one side saying "good!" and the other side saying "now wait a minute, that's bullsh*t they just ban people who didn't do anything" and then you'd hear replies saying "what? you like credit duping? idiot"
Agreed. I was one of the biggest proponents of removing forced PvP from the Master missions, but I certainly didn't want them to just switch off full-time PvP in Kessel. I should have EXPECTED that's what they'd do, because it's the easiest solution, but I hoped they'd come up with something better. I liked Kessel, I just didn't like forcing people who didn't want to PvP to go there.
I still have hope that this is just a temporary solution that will be removed when a better solution is ready, but we'll see. There really does need to be a pure, open PvP zone that players of any level can go into. Heck, I'd love to see one where anyone can hit anyone so you have to be really concerned about friendly fire.
Falin
Slarus wrote:
Special content just for PvPers just isnt fair.
Sums it up nicely doesn't it?
I did have something long to say - but it's nothing everyone hasn't said before.
meeuki wrote:
i mean look, i'm probably going to get load killed at one point or another while i play this game. i'll probably get worked afk. am i going to take those isolated incidents and use it as a rallying point for which to support taking content away from players? no. so why are other people doing it? why so bitter when death is essentially meaningless? ive read tons of posts from players saying "I SPENT 3 HOURS ON MY MASTER MISSION ONLY TO FAIL IT AT THE END AND START OVER!"
but the master mission doesn't even work like that. you pick it up and it stays in your datapad forever, until you complete it, even if you die. you spawn at endor and it takes 1 minute to go back.
The only problem is, death isn't quite so meaningless to the person dying. Sure, the one who kills you doesn't get any specific reward, but you take pretty significantdecay on your starship and installed components everytime you are destroyed. If you keep getting load-killed, you may find yourself without a ship before too long.
Most of us weren't supporting the removal of content for PvPers (unless you consider forcing people to fight you as content) as the majority of the requests were to just have the master missions moved or be instanced. Those who complained loudly about the "need" to keep Master Pilots rare and couldn't stand the thought of moving the missions into a gank-free sector did almost as much damage to the PvP cause as the campers and loadkillers by pretty much saying that their enjoyment of the game took priority over everyone else's ability to advance within their own play-style. Their uncompromising attitude did little to forment goodwill from the opposing viewpoint - I'm actually surprised there are so many of the non-PvP crowd in favor of returning Kessel to a full PvP zone.
If nothing else, the history of this game on the ground should have given plenty of indicators of how it would turn out - just look at what happened to the ATSTs and the Creature Handlers if you need a reminder. Uncompromising attitudes coupled with complaints from the majority of players always ends up the same way with knee-jerk reactions from the Devs that are described as temporary or as a 'first-step' but which almost always end up in a permanent screw...
Slarus wrote:
Special content for PvPers(or PvEers) is by all means fair. You have 12 zones they have 2, now 1, they don't complain every time another npc is added. So they should get a little something for them to do if they don't enjoy PvE as much as you do. That is you trying to force your playstyle on someone else, something that you have been against all along. That is not true, I am one of the uber elites on my server in both ground and space pvp (imo). And an organized group of a couple rebels, or even a single intelligent ship/player (dot user most likely lol) can take me out. Please do not dictate my mentality to me. I do not think i deserve to be rewarded for pvp, any more than you should be rewarded for PvE. (which you do get richly rewarded prestige points, loot drops, just pure cash from ships)
Ok sorry to say but PvE is the basis for this and every other MMO out there, I am not sure if Lineage or other PvP MMOs base advancement on PvP, but I do know that at least a vast majority base advancement soley on PvE results (Missions, XP, money, etc.) so I am not by saying all advancement in JTL being PvE based is unfair, that is the basis for advancement. Even the master mission is soley based on PvE progress, it only took place in a PvP zone which forced PvE players (PvPers who just want a complete pilot tree as well) to be subjected to PvP.
Your trying to argue the basic mechanics of the game as being a dictated to. Even in an all PvP game there is PvE content, I doubt ANY MMO exsist that is soley PvP, that is having no NPCs so PvE is the basic and PvP is the extension of that.
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
5 star'd.
PvP is a nice little bonus, but this really is a PvE game. And if you want a game that is a PvP game, then maybe MMO's aren't for you?
From my understanding - SWG was meant to be a game with some heavy PvP content. It was designed to be quick to get into, quick to get into fights and PvP was meant to be quite frequent because of the tef/faction system.
At least reading the manual implies that. It states that you cannot get attacked unless you are in a faction. By joining a faction you are accepting a risk of PvP. I realise with buffs and composite and foods and weapons and templates that the game has changed vastly from the original design inception - but in the good old days, when Imperials could have three AT-ST's and the like (which have been changed in many ways for the better) PvP was commonplace. There were literally hundreds of articles written on how to take and hold cities, from Anchorhead to Coronet, Bestine to Theed.
Starwars isn't about killing Nightsister Elders. It's about Stormtroopers and X-Wings, Blasters and Smugglers, Jabba the Hutt and the Emperor himself. Vader wasn't exactly a small figure in there either. Maybe I've lost the plot somewhere along the line - but I'm sure the game was designed with some seriously frequent PvP in mind - it's just got lost along the way. Well - at least that's what I inferred from the manual.
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
5 star'd.
PvP is a nice little bonus, but this really is a PvE game. And if you want a game that is a PvP game, then maybe MMO's aren't for you?
Message Edited by Massadonious on 11-14-2004 05:35 AM
Massadonious wrote:
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
5 star'd.
PvP is a nice little bonus, but this really is a PvE game. And if you want a game that is a PvP game, then maybe MMO's aren't for you?
Heh..
Then, I supposePvP'ers shouldn'tplay Everquest, Everquest 2 (If you don't think they're going to add PvP sooner or later, you're crazy)WoW, FinalFantasy,The Matrix Online, (Thatis probably goingto be PvP heavy....I mean come on, look at the subject matter), DAOC, Lineage, etc, etc...
Almost every MMO out there has some plausable PvP system to go with it's PvE content, and even one of SOE's own, Planetside, is pure PvP.
You'd do best to get off your high horse and stop thinking that PvE is the only reason anyone should play an MMO.
Message Edited by Massadonious on 11-14-2004 05:35 AM
Don't forget to add UO which was quite heavily PvP... *remembers when Lord Britain got PvP'd for the first time* or Lineage which if my memory serves me correctly has an absolutely ungodly populace of Koreans who love that game.
From my understanding - SWG was meant to be a game with some heavy PvP content. It was designed to be quick to get into, quick to get into fights and PvP was meant to be quite frequent because of the tef/faction system.
The game was never what could be called heavy PvP, not from the write ups and articles written before release and PvP was never the basis for advancement it was always a feature to take optionally. As it read in the manual a covert Imp or Reb could quite easily avoid TEFs, coverts fight the GCW in the shadows behind the lines,while Overts are on the front lines.
At least reading the manual implies that. It states that you cannot get attacked unless you are in a faction. By joining a faction you are accepting a risk of PvP. I realise with buffs and composite and foods and weapons and templates that the game has changed vastly from the original design inception - but in the good old days, when Imperials could have three AT-ST's and the like (which have been changed in many ways for the better) PvP was commonplace. There were literally hundreds of articles written on how to take and hold cities, from Anchorhead to Coronet, Bestine to Theed.
Joining a faction as a covert there is a small chance, but you can get to 200 faction points with zero TEFs which is enough to join, I earned 3500 faction points, zero TEFs doing the theme parks will generate TEFs and some mission will as well but you really can do alot without PvP.
Starwars isn't about killing Nightsister Elders. It's about Stormtroopers and X-Wings, Blasters and Smugglers, Jabba the Hutt and the Emperor himself. Vader wasn't exactly a small figure in there either. Maybe I've lost the plot somewhere along the line - but I'm sure the game was designed with some seriously frequent PvP in mind - it's just got lost along the way. Well - at least that's what I inferred from the manual.
The game was designed to allow different ways to PvP, I wouldn't call it frequent at all. From as far back as 2001 SWG was a PvE game with PvP options and that is it.