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Thread: Concerning the Pro's of Forced PvP Mastership......
Jay-Bird wrote:
Peresonally, i believe it makes sense. Why? Here it goes.........
Since the begining of avionic warfare, the term 'ace' has been reserved for whom? Those who are above average, who face ENEMY fighters and WIN. What about subterfuge one may ask? The stealth pilots. The bomber so to speak. The forced PvP mastership system alows for those roles, a Dogfighter, and a Bomber. If you don't wish to fight dificult opponents. Then you do NOT deserve the ttle -Insert Faction Here- Ace.
Agree'd, just that a neutral faction (PvE) should have "Ace" equal to their chosen game style. So a PvE faction should never be forced into a PvP style of play. Or are you willing to have to PvP to get master weaponsmith? Or how about master entertainer? Oh... I can see you saying no to that.. so why any other PvE profession? We pay to play this game and demand the same respect as you and your type of play does.
I am not trying mock, or taunt, or aggrivate anti-Pvpers, but Ace pilot is reserved for those who go above or beyond the average fighting skills. Besides, its about time SOE added some Pvp content, and PvP where compnents only go so far.
I agree that this game needs PvP content BUT not at the expense of PvE content. This game is big enough for both playstyles to respect and live with each other. Or do you think we do not deserve the same respect we show you?
/salute Devs
/salute SOE
Slarus wrote:
If this was a 100% fulltime pvp game I would agree with you. It's not. Not only is it not, but fully two thirds of the playerbase is factionally neutral according to the devs' own statistics. What it does is deny that content to a majority of the game's paying customers.
So by your account 75% of the money is not as good as 25% of the money, BS.
I had to reread his post couple of times, but I think he is agreeing with that fact that PvP should not be required for mastering. If I read his statement correctly he is saying that 75% of the players are neutral and out vote those that are factioned and thus should get non-factioned content (non-pvp).
Oh, btw last time I looked as astrmetrics it was only around 10% factioned and under 2% overt.... yet they seem hell bent on doing 95% of the work for 5% of the population all the time.
I had to reread his post couple of times, but I think he is agreeing with that fact that PvP should not be required for mastering. If I read his statement correctly he is saying that 75% of the players are neutral and out vote those that are factioned and thus should get non-factioned content (non-pvp).
Oh, btw last time I looked as astrmetrics it was only around 10% factioned and under 2% overt.... yet they seem hell bent on doing 95% of the work for 5% of the population all the time.
You got it right, sorry if I confused folks I was being sarcastic
Jay-Bird wrote:
Peresonally, i believe it makes sense. Why? Here it goes.........
Since the begining of avionic warfare, the term 'ace' has been reserved for whom? Those who are above average, who face ENEMY fighters and WIN. What about subterfuge one may ask? The stealth pilots. The bomber so to speak. The forced PvP mastership system alows for those roles, a Dogfighter, and a Bomber. If you don't wish to fight dificult opponents. Then you do NOT deserve the ttle -Insert Faction Here- Ace.
I am not trying mock, or taunt, or aggrivate anti-Pvpers, but Ace pilot is reserved for those who go above or beyond the average fighting skills. Besides, its about time SOE added some Pvp content, and PvP where compnents only go so far.
/salute Devs
/salute SOE
I think I see a fundamental flaw in your argument.
Pilot Mastery does not require you to engage other players. It isn't about simply defeating 'X' number of enemy pilots.
Pilot Masteryrequires you to be a target for other players while you attempt to perform a difficult task involving NPC's. You have to stay in the PvP zone for hours. If you leave, you must start over. If you are killed you must start over. Their mission, so to speak, is to ruin yours. If they leave the zone, they don't have to start over. They can zerg you, leave, repair, rearm, even get a new ship, and come back. Griefers in the PvP zone do not face the restrictions that a Pilot trying to get a mastery does. The griefer requires no skill to win, only persistance. No amount of skill will save you under these circumstances. Even if you were the greatest pilot ever, eventually you would run out of counter measures as you can not leave to rearm. The griefer can always go restock his missles and come back.
Of coarse, there will also be a great number of griefers. This type of system will attract them like moths to a flame. The griefers' only objective is to disrupt your game, and this creates the perfect conditions for them. It's the kind of thing that is a griefer's paradise, and a nightmare for everybody else.
Tover wrote:
Bloodseeker_real wrote:
However I trust that griefing shouldn't cause THAT much of a problem.
In every MMO I have ever played, griefing has caused huge problems. None of them have created such a griefer friendly envirmonment as these master level missions do.
Problem layout:
1: As more time goes by, and the population in Kessel increases, it will become more difficult for people to escape griefers.
2: As more time goes by, and the population in Kessel increases, it will become more difficult for pilots who just want some clean PvP fun to escape being labeled as griefers.
As I've said, it's the kind of system that is a paradise for the griefers, and a nightmare for everybody else. Everybody else includes a lot of PvP players. There should be a clear separation between PvE progression andPvP games to avoid these types of problems.
Very well put!
Space is small, so it will be impossible to escape griefers once the population of Kessel is higher than 5.
The truth is, there is no point in this decision to place a PVE mission in PVP space. It doesn't do anything good, it only causes grief and in the end it WILL hurt PVP.
Vicotnik wrote:
Tover wrote:
Bloodseeker_real wrote:
However I trust that griefing shouldn't cause THAT much of a problem.
In every MMO I have ever played, griefing has caused huge problems. None of them have created such a griefer friendly envirmonment as these master level missions do.
Problem layout:
1: As more time goes by, and the population in Kessel increases, it will become more difficult for people to escape griefers.
2: As more time goes by, and the population in Kessel increases, it will become more difficult for pilots who just want some clean PvP fun to escape being labeled as griefers.
As I've said, it's the kind of system that is a paradise for the griefers, and a nightmare for everybody else. Everybody else includes a lot of PvP players. There should be a clear separation between PvE progression andPvP games to avoid these types of problems.
Very well put!
Space is small, so it will be impossible to escape griefers once the population of Kessel is higher than 5.
The truth is, there is no point in this decision to place a PVE mission in PVP space. It doesn't do anything good, it only causes grief and in the end it WILL hurt PVP.
The problem isn't that space si small really, its that immature people like to hurt innocent people. Simple, and as demented,as that.
On the one hand, I think forced PVP is a good idea for gaining the master title, becoming the equivalent of jedi in space. It should be hard and everbody shouldn't master in a week. Some of the most fun aspects of the game so far have been the ones that take the longest time and give you a sense of accomplishment (hermit, village, RIS armor, loot kits, jedi etc.)
On the other hand, it will be the powergamers who level up without much resistance in a few days with their guilds and then will dominate Kessel space and try to make sure nobody else can have teh "uber" m4st3r p1l07 title.
If you get lucky though, they may be too busy ganking each other and you can go about the missions, and also bring along your own gank squad (er wingmen) for protection (master level quests can't be soloed anyway.)
My advice is to do whatever I do when new content comes out, wait for the hype to blow over and the next big thing to come along (i.e. vilage phase, new dungeon, etc.), then all the powergamers rush to that and you can do your quests in peace. /patience
So overall I am for the current system as it stands.
As a 4-4-4-4 pilot, you'll have to spend a few hours, from the reports I've seen, in the PVP zone trying to find NPC spawns to finish the mission. During that time, players can and will attack. After a month or two, this could make it close to impossible to become a master with a ton of people in the zone. And of course, the people just trying to do the mission will call any player who attacks a griefer, because they don't want to PVP at that point in time.
On the other side are the innocent PVP'ers. These are the players who do not want to grief anyone, they just want to have fun in combat with another player. There won't be any way to determine who is looking to PVP and who is trying to do the mission. So these innocent players will be called a "griefer" when that is the furthest thing from their minds.
Both these types of players should hate the fact that this PVE mission requires you to go into a PVP zone. The mission pilots because it's preventing them from completing their mission, and the PVP'ers because they will be accused of being something they are not. Both types will lose some, if not all, of the "fun factor" of playing because of this.
The only type who should like it are the griefers, and we all know they exist and will be there looking to screw up someone else's fun. This will be "legalized" griefing and they will love it.
This really needs to be changed soon before players get frustrated at having to spend hours and days trying to complete this mission because other players kill them. And before the honest PVP'ers get fed up with being labelled a griefer.
CyberData4 wrote:
2- Not establishing a dialogue with the beta testers to see how realistic this method of advancement would be.
The thing is that us Beta testers have been trying to open a dialogue with the devs about this. All threads and posts about it went ignored. Even the many posts in the threads about mission balance started by the developers themselves.
Also, this very thing has been on many a beta testers Top 5 issues posts that we've had daily. I think yesterday or two days ago over 50% of the posts mentioned this.
I would like one of the developers, preferably the one in charge for these missions, to come forward and explain exactly how he/she/they think this willwork outgood. What's the point of it all?