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Thread: Imperial/Rebel Inbalance
FuryoftheStars
Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:50 pm
#14
Hmm, even after taking out the reactor most ships seem to continue fighting me 
I guess they got a spare hidden away or something.
I guess they got a spare hidden away or something.
hawkbat37
Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:18 pm
#15
TheOneCH0908 wrote:
Actually, I test JTLS beta and do test on testcenter...I unlike you, don't just test when there are blue frogs...I am look for bugs and send feedback on items. I was one of the first people to get the YT-1300 plasma leak bug...so can't you ever be thankful...I was angry when I posted this...giving my two cents(an opinion). I will continue to test until this game end...so get over yourself!!!
Message Edited by TheOneCH0908 on 01-08-2005 11:14 AM
You're STILL test JTLS Beta? Hmmm. ok. I too WAS in JTLS Beta when it was ACTIVE. As far as TC, true, I am not there. I figured they had plenty of, yes I can admit this, capable testers already.
/sarcasm on
One of the first ya don't say?A very hard bug to find so very very nice catch on that. I can Honestly say that if you are a representationin regards to the majority ofTC folks, then we are in good hands...
/sarcasm off (No offense intended to the other Beta Testers I have run into and others I have not, good job all and keep it up)
I have gotten over myself a long time ago, in factI still have the mirror I used to take a good long hard look at myself. Wanna borrow it?
Message Edited by hawkbat37 on 01-08-2005 05:20 PM
charben
Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:44 pm
#16
I don't think the x-wing's mass should be adjusted, but I do think that the 3rd gun hardpoint should be removed and replaced with a 2nd missile hardpoint. This would make the x-wing much more "movie-like."
FuryoftheStars
Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:13 pm
#17
For crying out loud peeps... I don't think any of the ships have a proper mass/PYR (seems it's determined by mass)to what they are supposed to be or what we have... except for maybe the 3 MP ships (YT-1300 etc). So please stop the finger pointing and saying it's "that faction that's unfair" or anything like that. Everything is unfair in this game.
Message Edited by FuryoftheStars on 01-08-2005 04:14 PM
ana-mo-cara
Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:17 pm
#18
Kind of agree today when I spent fifteen minutes takeing down one tie I almost ripped out all my hair. After awhile I figured out what the space game was reminding me of. Remember in biology when you had to look through the microscope. Things bounceing into one another and shooting off in oddball directions.
What I kind of disliked today being my first day.
The radar sucks in a spherical enviroment there is no excuse for this. I spent alot of time just trying to guess where the enemy was let alone fight him. By the way tattooine space is just a giant junkyard that makes it like the mirage from hell. I have seen better radar in alot of games. The radar needs revamped to be more then generally helpful.
I agree the targetting in the game is borked. This is not skill based this is target something other then the ship to get a hit. Oh for pete sakes I am right on his rear fireing and missing while if I dart out three inches I will hit him every time. That just blows the mind.
Maybe worse then that how the hell did laser fire get so increadibly slow. Its like shooting a bow and arrow with a lead brick on the pointy end.
I basically spent a day on rails. How the hell can 360 degree freedom feal like being on rails. It comes from spinning around like a dog trying to bite his tail. There is just no fealing of momentum, and biplanes couldnt turn this sharp.
My oppinion its okay I can get used to it, but I feal like this is a compromised system. I thought I was getting arcade, but instead I got something slow paced tedious, and annoying. Maybe more a flight sim well not really either. Since none of the vehicles follows even remotely reasonable physics. Ships breaking off at right angle then breaking off at another right angle.
Anyway none of this strikes me as all that skill based. If it were fast paced I could see that. If the ships had graceful twists and turns, and actual arcs of flight I could see that. Unfortunately it seems the devs kind of plagerized halo for the pc. You know the part with the banshees. You both dance in circles over and over and over.
Do I blame the devs for the y wing yes and no, and I blame the players yes and no. We all know the devs can be the worst pack of fanboys, and the most critical people are pasty fanboys. I think the devs should have stood up, and said we are going to create a few new scratch ships for the game. They caved though and tried to be utterly authentic, or perhaps they took the dark path and doubled wherever possible to save compute cycles and actual work. Why create a new model when you can reuse another model.
As a weaponsmith I have seen alot of this dh17 anyone. Ok yeah it looks like a cdef carbine, and yeah there are three dh17s.
theoden-flurry
Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:28 am
#19
i have no problems hitting a tie with a y-wing but to say its biast towards imperials is just wrong the only tie with a decent mass is the bomber on teir 3 teir 1 is 20k mass or about that i think and teir 2 is around 60k mass so why shouldnt a tie be able to outrun the reble ships when they have alot lower mass meaning their only bonus is speed and agility.
Narreem0884
Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:44 am
#20
Your Y-Longprobe won't cut it past the first Tier 4 mission. Trust me on this. You may be able solo small groups of Tier 4 TIEs, but when the second mission hits the Tier 5 Aggressor will rip youseveral new ones. Not to mention his 9 Tier 4 TIE escort constantly blasting you from every direction. That last part assumes you fly for Vortex squadron.
In any case, you'll need help. I love my Y-Longprobe, but no matter how well I equip it it's impossible to solo those last 3 missions. I'm at 3 / 4 / 4 / 4 with 2 million in extra space combat from trying it solo. I've got two missions left and still can't round up enough support to finish them off.
Ducimus
Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:36 am
#21
>>I think the X-Wing should get a mass increase. Its supposted to be our Superiority Fighter but yet people can't use alot of its features.
I disagree. Just because you have the slot to fit a part on a ship, doesnt mean that you should, or was "meant to".
As for rebel ships. Here's what i think
I think the Y wing should have the same mass as the Longprobe. Just so the pilot and gunner can have some beefy cannons, AND allow it to carry a dencent payload to act as a bomber.
The Xwing, IF... IF... i were to increase the mass on this, it would be to 110K. But only to make it easier to use the 3rd projectile mount, and only because the rebels do lack a heavy fighter. That said, i do not think the xwing needs to be increased at all. It is the most versitle ship, and its performance for its mass is stop notch. You put a 70ish YPR engine in it, and it flies like an A wing with a 62 YPR engine.
Overall i think rebel ships are fine.
As to convergance? You folks do realize convergence (or lack thereof) is a double edged sword right? Sure, your bolts may straddle a Tie fighter (which are by design, hard to hit), but your overall chances of hitting a moving target in a dogfight are ALOT HIGHER than a ship with a chin mounted gun. The way guns work in this game, if you clip your target with one or two bolts, you still do full damage. They all don't have to hit, you have alot of forgivness with sloppy aim. Xwing's have a spread like a shotgun.
With no spread (chin mounted guns) you have to be ALOT more exact in your aiming, and it is alot easier to miss your target at high speed fights where your fighting somethign as maneuverable as you are. Your aiming point, is more like a pin point, with ships such as the A wing.
If i was to complain, it would be about some of the TIE's.
Tie fighter, Tie /LN and unfortunatly the T/I are all throw away ships. Where as rebel ships you can always go back and use them for a specific role.. no such thing with TIE's. In my opinion the T/I should be about 60K mass instead of 50K mass. Why? Because the A wing has 1 weapon mount, so does the T/I. It would make this ship a bit more viable. As it is, once you hit teir 4, may as well deed it or sell it.
ALso in contrast to the A wing, The T/A has two mounts, and is the same mass as an A wing. Hence the A wing has more mass for other crucial parts where as the T/A has to shim down on something in order to accomedate the 2nd gun. I think the T/A should be 70 to 75K mass, instead of 65K.
As an aside, aslthough there are some who would hate the diea, i wish this ship fired 4 bolts like the the interceptor. Everythings mounted in the chin, and the thing turns on a hair, making the slightest joystick movment a drastic movement in a highs speed fight, which makes it a bit harder to aim. But on the plus side, it makes for a skilled pilot.
I disagree. Just because you have the slot to fit a part on a ship, doesnt mean that you should, or was "meant to".
As for rebel ships. Here's what i think
I think the Y wing should have the same mass as the Longprobe. Just so the pilot and gunner can have some beefy cannons, AND allow it to carry a dencent payload to act as a bomber.
The Xwing, IF... IF... i were to increase the mass on this, it would be to 110K. But only to make it easier to use the 3rd projectile mount, and only because the rebels do lack a heavy fighter. That said, i do not think the xwing needs to be increased at all. It is the most versitle ship, and its performance for its mass is stop notch. You put a 70ish YPR engine in it, and it flies like an A wing with a 62 YPR engine.
Overall i think rebel ships are fine.
As to convergance? You folks do realize convergence (or lack thereof) is a double edged sword right? Sure, your bolts may straddle a Tie fighter (which are by design, hard to hit), but your overall chances of hitting a moving target in a dogfight are ALOT HIGHER than a ship with a chin mounted gun. The way guns work in this game, if you clip your target with one or two bolts, you still do full damage. They all don't have to hit, you have alot of forgivness with sloppy aim. Xwing's have a spread like a shotgun.
With no spread (chin mounted guns) you have to be ALOT more exact in your aiming, and it is alot easier to miss your target at high speed fights where your fighting somethign as maneuverable as you are. Your aiming point, is more like a pin point, with ships such as the A wing.
If i was to complain, it would be about some of the TIE's.
Tie fighter, Tie /LN and unfortunatly the T/I are all throw away ships. Where as rebel ships you can always go back and use them for a specific role.. no such thing with TIE's. In my opinion the T/I should be about 60K mass instead of 50K mass. Why? Because the A wing has 1 weapon mount, so does the T/I. It would make this ship a bit more viable. As it is, once you hit teir 4, may as well deed it or sell it.
ALso in contrast to the A wing, The T/A has two mounts, and is the same mass as an A wing. Hence the A wing has more mass for other crucial parts where as the T/A has to shim down on something in order to accomedate the 2nd gun. I think the T/A should be 70 to 75K mass, instead of 65K.
As an aside, aslthough there are some who would hate the diea, i wish this ship fired 4 bolts like the the interceptor. Everythings mounted in the chin, and the thing turns on a hair, making the slightest joystick movment a drastic movement in a highs speed fight, which makes it a bit harder to aim. But on the plus side, it makes for a skilled pilot.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 01-09-2005 10:54 AM
DarthGorilla
Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:20 pm
#22
I kill all tiers of ties all the time in my longprobe. I've only been shot down 3 times in pve and one time was doing a corvette run in Kessle. I have even taken out tier 4 oppressors in my LP. I soloed 3 out of four of my tier 3 missions in my logprobe and am a 3433 pilot having spent most of my flight time in a Y-wing of some kind. I just recently picked up an x-wing to mess with and while it is cool in some respects it just isn't as good for me as a longprobe. I even managed a couple pvp kills and a coupel assist with it tonight. I plan to fly it all the way to my ace box.
S-1-l2-H-C
Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:17 pm
#23
Ducimus wrote:
>>I think the X-Wing should get a mass increase. Its supposted to be our Superiority Fighter but yet people can't use alot of its features.
I disagree. Just because you have the slot to fit a part on a ship, doesnt mean that you should, or was "meant to".
As for rebel ships. Here's what i think
I think the Y wing should have the same mass as the Longprobe. Just so the pilot and gunner can have some beefy cannons, AND allow it to carry a dencent payload to act as a bomber.
The Xwing, IF... IF... i were to increase the mass on this, it would be to 110K. But only to make it easier to use the 3rd projectile mount, and only because the rebels do lack a heavy fighter. That said, i do not think the xwing needs to be increased at all. It is the most versitle ship, and its performance for its mass is stop notch. You put a 70ish YPR engine in it, and it flies like an A wing with a 62 YPR engine.
Overall i think rebel ships are fine.
As to convergance? You folks do realize convergence (or lack thereof) is a double edged sword right? Sure, your bolts may straddle a Tie fighter (which are by design, hard to hit), but your overall chances of hitting a moving target in a dogfight are ALOT HIGHER than a ship with a chin mounted gun. The way guns work in this game, if you clip your target with one or two bolts, you still do full damage. They all don't have to hit, you have alot of forgivness with sloppy aim. Xwing's have a spread like a shotgun.
With no spread (chin mounted guns) you have to be ALOT more exact in your aiming, and it is alot easier to miss your target at high speed fights where your fighting somethign as maneuverable as you are. Your aiming point, is more like a pin point, with ships such as the A wing.
If i was to complain, it would be about some of the TIE's.
Tie fighter, Tie /LN and unfortunatly the T/I are all throw away ships. Where as rebel ships you can always go back and use them for a specific role.. no such thing with TIE's. In my opinion the T/I should be about 60K mass instead of 50K mass. Why? Because the A wing has 1 weapon mount, so does the T/I. It would make this ship a bit more viable. As it is, once you hit teir 4, may as well deed it or sell it.
ALso in contrast to the A wing, The T/A has two mounts, and is the same mass as an A wing. Hence the A wing has more mass for other crucial parts where as the T/A has to shim down on something in order to accomedate the 2nd gun. I think the T/A should be 70 to 75K mass, instead of 65K.
As an aside, aslthough there are some who would hate the diea, i wish this ship fired 4 bolts like the the interceptor. Everythings mounted in the chin, and the thing turns on a hair, making the slightest joystick movment a drastic movement in a highs speed fight, which makes it a bit harder to aim. But on the plus side, it makes for a skilled pilot.Message Edited by Ducimus on 01-09-2005 10:54 AM
the tie-adv should have more mass just cause it can mount 2 guns??? i think you are looking at this the wrong way. i have an awing and a tie-adv on a differnt server. the awing has a single lvl8 gun at 25k mass, the tie-adv has a pair ov lvl6 guns at 10k mass each. combined the lvl6 guns do about 3600-5300, the awing does 2500-3900. the effectiveness to shields and armor and also the refirerate are almost identical between all three guns. so the tie-adv hits MUCH harder and has more free mass for other parts than the awing. the awing makes up for this with a smaller profile that makes it a tough target. i think the ballance is pretty good.
just because your tie-advanced can mount a pair of large guns doesnt mean you should. i see the 2 weapon mounts as more of a way to use a pair of lower level guns and get the same or more damage output and less mass than a single big gun. the tie-int needs to have 2 weapon mounts also though if you ask me. or they could be really evil and give it 4 weapon mounts, that would make it a bit overpowered though.
Gom_Kuub
Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:30 pm
#24
mayb you just don't gotthe majicjoystick handling fingers
TheOneCH0908 wrote:
I am pissed at the aiming in JTL...it takes for every to hit a dam ship! A imperial tie fly across your screen yet you can't seen to hit him becuase he is fly by you so fast. Yet, SOE cheaped out and instead of giving use a fast-ship to combat tie in lower tiers; They give us the same dam ship twice...can we say lazy! I am sick of spending a half an hour just to shoot one ship...grinding is not fun...if it is not fun I don't want to do it...if I don't want to do it I will stop playing....If I stop playing and go to WoW SOE loses money(I will not leave this game...I just want to make it better)(screw WoW)...I feel SOE needs to rethink space, and yes they have a big enough team to do both Combat Revamp and fixing the dam expansion. I really don't want to have to go to the same length as the revamp and wait a year for them to fix the expansion. I think the rebels need a new teir two ship not just the same old y-wing.
or mojo or majic touch or whatever you want to call it
i don't know if you ever played a normal game before, where you aim and shoot
if you are used to locking on and damaging a target at chance, then play on the ground or play KOTOR or sumtin else
i like how the game is, because that's how a shooter is: aim and shoot
i hate the games where you lock on, and hit a target at chance, it takes no skill
the only reason people are good at the ground game is because they have a lot of free time
-Gom
Ducimus
Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:24 pm
#25
>>the tie-adv should have more mass just cause it can mount 2 guns???
Well.. ya..
It's called, SELF INTREST, and i don't deny it. Just 5K more mass would go a long way in a T/A
Overall though, generally speaking i think imp ships are SLIGHTY.. EVER SO SLIGHLY undermassed. Their speed and manuverablity is amazing, hence i do not think they are as undermassed as most people would make them out to be. Honestly i didnt run into mass issues until i started using a T/I and T/A. To be honest 65K mass is livable if your patent for the right parts.
But my overall point remains, if theres an imbalance between Imperial and rebel ships, its not how the orginal poster makes it out to be. Theres little room to complain where rebel ships are concerned.
Well.. ya..
It's called, SELF INTREST, and i don't deny it. Just 5K more mass would go a long way in a T/A
Overall though, generally speaking i think imp ships are SLIGHTY.. EVER SO SLIGHLY undermassed. Their speed and manuverablity is amazing, hence i do not think they are as undermassed as most people would make them out to be. Honestly i didnt run into mass issues until i started using a T/I and T/A. To be honest 65K mass is livable if your patent for the right parts.
But my overall point remains, if theres an imbalance between Imperial and rebel ships, its not how the orginal poster makes it out to be. Theres little room to complain where rebel ships are concerned.
Cebre_Opasloa
Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:34 pm
#26
Agreed, the YWings may handle poorly and the Rebels do get two of them, but so does the TIE Bomber and the Imperials got hosed for mass on every ship except perhaps the Aggressor (and the Decimator of course). It all balances out I think...