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Just started trying to get a better shield for my xwing today and realized something is really wrong with the number for shields.

Lvl 1-6 shields seem fine, they give gains to front/back shields with more mass.

At lvl 7 things start getting strange. Mass starts climbing and shield performance only advances a small amount.
At lvl 8 things look really bad. Mass has doubled from an average of 15k up to 20k or so. Performance on the shields doesn't double, in fact it barely beats lvl 7 in most cases.

Lvl 9 Shields take another 15k hike in mass for numbers between 45k and 60k. And the numbers on the shields are about similar with the lvl 8's in a lot of cases. (We haven't cleared 2000 on front or back at this point)

Lvl 10 Shields have mass that climbs well above 60k and if you're lucky the shields will have 2000 on front or back. If you real lucky it will have 2000 on front AND back.

A player crafted Mark IV lvl 7 shield is usually around 15k to 17k mass and the shields can get up to 1800/1800.

The reward shield that all players get upon completing a pilot tree is 2433/2433 with about 28k mass. (RE'd it's 25XX/25XX with 26-27k mass)

It looks like the upper level shields have had a bandaid thrown on them and it's really annoying. By giving everyone a shield that out performs any level 8-10 shield (looted or player crafted) you've basically made all looted/crafted level 8-10 shields useless not to mention a huge waste of mass.

This needs to be fixed.

FIRST lets do this:
Make the Mark V player crafted shields front/back numbers reflect the mass the component will take. If a lvl 7 shield is 1600/1600 15k mass (lets call that average), a Mark V (lvl 9) Shield will be 45k-60k mass and have 4800-6400 front/back shields.

SECOND go back and double all the lvl 8 shields front/back numbers. (Lvl 8 Loot is typically 2x the mass of lvl 7.) Except the reward shields, don't touch those.
THIRD go back and Triple the Lvl 9 Shields front/back numbers. (Lvl 9 loot mass is typically triple the mass of lvl 7.)
FOURTH go back and Quadruple the lvl 10 shields front/back numbers (lvl 10 loot mass is typicall 4x the mass of lvl 7.)
FIFTH Make tier 6 enemies and update deep space so it have some tier 6 enemies. (just make the shields weapons and engines stronger)


This change will give heavier ships a reason to use 45k or up to 70k or so for shields. As is there is no point as that reward shields is the best one u can get. PLUS it will give MP ships a shield to mount on their ships that has SOME chance of making a difference in combat for the ship.

Message Edited by Tumbler2002 on 04-21-2005 10:09 AM

Heh, long term only shields right now worth using are

Player made:

MK III - about 1200 to 1300 F/b
and
MK IV - ive made mine, at just under 1900 F/B.

Then theres an RE'd Level 8 shield.

The rest is, garbage in my opinion. Ive never seen anythign higher than an RE'd L8 reward shield, which always comes out to 2555 f/b.

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Ducimus wrote:
Heh, long term only shields right now worth using are

Player made:

MK III - about 1200 to 1300 F/b
and
MK IV - ive made mine, at just under 1900 F/B.

Then theres an RE'd Level 8 shield.

The rest is, garbage in my opinion. Ive never seen anythign higher than an RE'd L8 reward shield, which always comes out to 2555 f/b.

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Yep. That is what I've found as well.
MK III are typically about 6k-7k mass but I've never liked shields at 1200-1300 for PvE
I've got a MK IV that is 17XX/17XX that is less than 15k mass and it is perfect for pvp/pve. I've had it stay up after 1 hit in pvp with imo pays for itself right there. Can't afford the mass to throw in the reward shield though.

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Kalaf wrote:

Man wish I had recieved a reward shield like that. But I did get the uber Engine before they took it away...

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If you completed any of the pilot trees you should have. It's a standard reward across all the professions. If you don't have one go grind out your pilot profession again and get one. It's worth it imo unless they fix the shields so that the level 8-10 shields are worth all the mass they take it will be the best shield u can have.

Message Edited by psikobunny on 04-21-2005 11:21 PM

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Imaridril wrote:

Its not easy to do, but you can beat the level 8 reward shield with a level 10 RE. The bonus for a level 10 RE is 6%, whereas its 5% for a level 8. Thus you need to find a level 10 shield with 2410 or higher and you'll be able to match or beat the level 8 reward shield. I've looted level 10 shields with over 2800 before, so I know its possible. If you looted one level 10 shield with 2830 front and another with 2830 back, you'd be able to RE them to a shield with 3000 front/back. This would definately take a long time to pull off, but it is possible.

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Lvl 8 reward shield reverses to around 26k mass to 28k mass. A level 10 would b at very least 55k mass I believe. Double the mass for at most 500 extra shield points?


My point was that once mass started doubling the shield values should double as well no? Why do we want someone to have to sacrifice 60k mass for only 3000/3000 shields (assuming he can even find one of these.)

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Tumbler2002 wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

Its not easy to do, but you can beat the level 8 reward shield with a level 10 RE. The bonus for a level 10 RE is 6%, whereas its 5% for a level 8. Thus you need to find a level 10 shield with 2410 or higher and you'll be able to match or beat the level 8 reward shield. I've looted level 10 shields with over 2800 before, so I know its possible. If you looted one level 10 shield with 2830 front and another with 2830 back, you'd be able to RE them to a shield with 3000 front/back. This would definately take a long time to pull off, but it is possible.

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Lvl 8 reward shield reverses to around 26k mass to 28k mass. A level 10 would b at very least 55k mass I believe. Double the mass for at most 500 extra shield points?

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Well, you can get lower than 55k if you're patient. I looted a level 10 shield last night that's only 45k mass. That would RE down to 42.3k mass. That's only 15k more than most RE'd level 8 reward shields. Now, I agree, that on most fighters, that extra 15k mass can be hard to find, but on a heavy fighter or POB ship, especially one set up for PvP, dedicating an additional 15-20k mass to shields shouldn't be that hard.

Well, you can get lower than 55k if you're patient. I looted a level 10 shield last night that's only 45k mass. That would RE down to 42.3k mass. That's only 15k more than most RE'd level 8 reward shields. Now, I agree, that on most fighters, that extra 15k mass can be hard to find, but on a heavy fighter or POB ship, especially one set up for PvP, dedicating an additional 15-20k mass to shields shouldn't be that hard.

I'm just saying that if mass doubles from Lvl 6 - 7 shields. Why don't the shield strengths go up more than 10%?

It really throws things out of wack when mass goes up 100% and performance goes up mabye 10%.

Then at level 8 Mass doubles again from 15k - 30k and shield strength again goes up mabye 10%.

Lvl 9 same thing happens.

Lvl 10 same things happens.

I'm sure it's possible to get slightly better shields if you're patient enough but for most all that extra mass isn't worth the very small boost in shields. And in order to counter blaster effectively shields should climb in performance like guns do.

Lvl 6 gun can do about 1400-2400 max damage. and is about 10k mass. (I have several RE'd just like this)
Lvl 7 gun is 2200-3000 dmg and is 13k -15k dmg (I have several Re'd with these stats)
Lvl 8 gun is between 25k -30k mass and does 2700-4k dmg on average (I have one re'd that does 4k dmg)
Lvl 9 gun is 35-45k mass dmg is 3k-4k
lvl 10 gun is 45k-60k and does 4k+ dmg.

The performance on guns is much better as mass increases. And shields are supposed to counter these weapons yet don't get the performance increases to do it. Currently a Lvl 10 shield should be at 4k hitpoints. (Lvl 10 wpns triple from lvl 6, shields at lvl 6 are about 1300x3=3900)

Message Edited by Tumbler2002 on 04-22-2005 03:46 PM

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psikobunny wrote:

You have to factor in the increases in Regen rates on those shields as well. It's largely an ignored stat since CtSS, but it was factored in when considering overall power on the looted RE jobs. while a L10 RE shield may only get 500 extra hp, the effective strength from the 5-10 extra regen points is significant. I tend to agree shields don't progress enough compared to weapons at the high end, but you need to look at the whole process.

PS your argument is stronger if you stick with shield progression vs weapon progression, and leave mass out of it altogether. We all know the massing system is an artificial limiter for ship placement and has no real bearing on an item's effectiveness.

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I think you are over emphasizing the importance of shield regen rate. It plays a very minor role in combat, CTSS is much more relevant as to how fast shields recharge. I cannot think of any time I was ever saved by a superior regen rate. Damage comes in very fast and tends to be concentrated in short burts rather than spread over several minutes. Best regen I've seen I believe was around 20 but that regen isn't going to make any difference at all if u get pummeled by a corevette. That extra 20-40 points it puts into the shields in that 1 to 2 seconds isn't going to make any difference. And typically that is how long you have 1 - 2 seconds.