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Thread: Ok ... I finally give up.
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CheckSixTumRum
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:10 pm
#1
JTL just is not fun for me. I'll continue to play the ground game but JTL is just not fun and as much as I hate to, I'm giving it up.
Here is some history, I'm sure you've all heard this before so this post is really just one for the devs.
1) I loved X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance
These games were not broken, not in the least. The formula was great, the missions were enguaging and the game play was superb. I felt like a fighter jock.
WHERE JTL MISSES THE MARK: Quite simply, the game play is poor. Ships feel slow and unresponsive. Turning is a nightmare. Weapons feel lame. Why did SOE try to improve on a formula that everyone I've spoken with loved? These are hall of fame games with great gameplay. What were you thinking when you decided on the current formula?
2) Missions in the afforementioned games were fast paced and challenging.
WHERE JTL MISSES THE MARK: Missions in JTL are boring. Kind of pokey in pacing and not enough ships to feel "EPIC".
3) I want to be a fighter jock, not a bomber jock.
WHERE JTL MISSES THE MARK: Grinding in space? Come on, give me a BREAK. I love MMORPG ground and I understand why grinding is a part of that but GRINDING IN SPACE IS BORING! I don't even have any really nice graphics to keep me company while I mindlessly kill TIE AFTER TIE AFTER TIE WITH THE SLOWEST SIM GAMEPLAY ON THE PLANET! Grinding through the Y-Wing is just painful.
In talking with my friends locally who play SWG we're in agreement on these points. My ingame friends seem to agree too. Unless space improves alot I won't be going there again any time soon.
My dev friends, I know you can't reply to this. I also know you work in a behometh of a company and your hands are tiedconcerning most decisions.I also know that your servers have limitations that make it difficult to make a fast paced game in space ala X-Wing. Bottom line is:I know it isn't totaly your fault. All I ask is this: In whatever way you can, in whatever meetings you attend, in the safest and most respectful way possible please inform the decision makers at SOE that JTL is a failure and should be rethought.
Good luck Devs, You're the unsung whipping boys of SOE. My hat's off to you.
Ducimus
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:47 pm
#2
>>Quite simply, the game play is poor. Ships feel slow and unresponsive. Turning is a nightmare. Weapons feel lame.
>>Missions in the afforementioned games were fast paced and challenging.
Because of some of your conclusions you draw, I have to ask:
What pilot profession did you try, and how far in it did you get?
>>Missions in the afforementioned games were fast paced and challenging.
Because of some of your conclusions you draw, I have to ask:
What pilot profession did you try, and how far in it did you get?
ComCypher
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:19 pm
#3
I hear what you are saying, it seems that all of us XWA vets are feeling let down by JTL.
I particularly agree with your points on the ship turning and weapons. In XWA you could actually sense your ship jinking and swerving as you dueled your opponents, but in JTL movement feels stiff and jerky. And then in JTL the devs got lazy when programming the lasers, instead of calculating the damagefrom each bolt they simply treat them as a single bolt. Unfortunately, SOE has a reputation for reinventing the wheel instead of sticking with what works.
Dessimus
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:49 pm
#4
Ducimus wrote:
>>Quite simply, the game play is poor. Ships feel slow and unresponsive. Turning is a nightmare. Weapons feel lame.
>>Missions in the afforementioned games were fast paced and challenging.
Because of some of your conclusions you draw, I have to ask:
What pilot profession did you try, and how far in it did you get?
i would like to know also. sounds like you didn't get far.
Ducimus
Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:13 pm
#5
When i was in the JTL beta checking the game out, i drew the same conclusions he did, at tier 1 and 2. Thats why im asking. I had to force myself to go farther into the game and didnt see the game pick up until i did.
Ya JTL has its problems, but its not as bad as he's painting them up to be - err well at least i dont think so. Although i really would like E/w/s energy management instead of droid commands.
Ya JTL has its problems, but its not as bad as he's painting them up to be - err well at least i dont think so. Although i really would like E/w/s energy management instead of droid commands.
CheckSixTumRum
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:38 am
#6
On Wander home, I have a Rebel 1/2/1/1, currently in the Y-Wing. I've played a friends account at his house, however, which was much higher (3/4/3/3 maybe?) I flew an X-Wing there. I still was not impressed.
No matter weather one agrees with me about game play no one can dispute the grinding arguement. You may disagree with me about weather or not grinding is a good or bad thing but grinding is there and I think everyone agrees that grinding is boring.
- CheckSix.
No matter weather one agrees with me about game play no one can dispute the grinding arguement. You may disagree with me about weather or not grinding is a good or bad thing but grinding is there and I think everyone agrees that grinding is boring.
- CheckSix.
Ghost-Raven
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:52 am
#7
You Want adventure...You want a challenge ..Come to DS and play against other players .....talk about intense its fast fun you opponent is not predictable and u can die in a sec
Narreem0884
Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:21 pm
#8
I've had bad luck with DS on my server. So far every time I've gone there it was empty. As for JtL not being fun, get up to 4 / 4 / 4 / 4 and you'll change your mind. Also, the ships can be very responsive if you know how to handle them. Most of the space combat sims I've played had realistic physicis so playing this is a breeze in comparison.
PixellJ
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:02 pm
#9
Sorry, I gotta point out that realistics physics in space is NOT what Star Wars is all about.
I like JtL, but ya, like the ground game, it feels vanilla flavoured. No white knuckle flying like in XwA et al. In those games I learned how to work my ship, but here, it's very hard to 'feel'. There's so little you can do compared to XwA with your ship, I only use like 3 buttons on my joystick.
airtrent73
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:09 pm
#10
The only gripe I have about JTL is this kind of situation.
I'm a 2/2/2/2 Imperial pilot and have already maxed my xp, so I'm ready to train for my first Tier 3 skill. Unfortunately, to get the training, I have to pass a mission that I simply don't think I can pass on my own. I've already got the best components I can possibly fit into my ship, so that's not the issue. And what's more, during the attempts, I don't gain anymore ship combat xp. The only benefit is I usually declare my faction and thus get a great deal of fp out of the deal. Have yet to run into another overt player, but I'm kind of looking forward to that situation when I do.
The issue is finding other players to group with me. I don't think this is something I can blame SOE for. I just can't find other players to group. I think it would help if I could still get the training based on my xp, not on the missions. I reached that xp total by staying alive in a mission twice, but in each case, I didn't complete the mission. I fought, dodged, juked, and dogfighted my way through much of the mission, but finally got to a point where I could see I was screwed and managed to hyper out before the end came. Despite it all, I can't get trained and worse, I have to start the mission from the very stinking beginning instead of from the point where I bailed.
I'm a veteran of all the previous space sims that were already mentioned in this thread. I do agree that JTL is not as good as those, but I've not gotten to the master levels yet either. I still enjoy my time in space and I think I'm a pretty solid pilot within the system. So, I'll have to deal with this situation and if any imperial pilots out there want to help me out, please look up Arilei Sunstrider on the Bloodfin server. She usually hangs out in Bestine on Tatooine. I could use the assist.
Airtrent
Ghost-Raven
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:25 pm
#11
read my posts above understand what it is i do then gimmie a call ign Ghost-raven .. ill help ya out ..
Zanholo
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:38 pm
#12
My guess would also be that the original poster didn't use any flight programs at all and probably didn't have much in the way of decent components.
Getting everything one needs to make flight a lot more fun can definitely present a challenge.
"Grinding" in space really pisses you off that much?? It's nothing compared to anything on the ground and if one actually does his own missions, he'll usually have very little "grind" left to do at all between skill box missions.
Greblak
Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:23 am
#13
All the JTL complaining would be over with if the duty missions was gone and some proper story-based and perhaps more advanced fighters (E,L,S controls as said earlier)
In the old games you have maybe up to tertiary mission objectives which can be everything from protecting cargo ships to making whackamole of a star destroyer(Although my personal favourite was setting up a coustom and whacking a super star destroyer on Balance of Power!
)
As far as I know of(and I'm presuming this since I'm not very far in the prof of rebel pilot, but ive heard stories) there are no star destroyers for us to whackamole! You can't dock with a main rebel ship to get free repairs and a refill. After all the Rebel alliance/Imps should be reloading you for free.
The only thing you can blow up is the corvette!
There are more than 10 starships in the galaxy
And grinding on the ground is completely different... then you can normally outrun your enemy with a burst run...
Last night i did a normal duty mission, and the last stupid tie got to close to some black suns... In a matter of seconds my rear shield was bust even though my astromech put power to rear shield. I had to eject :@ and landed to repair and get my wounds healed. Now I don't mind getting attacked by pirates... but most pirates in the other games run like chickens when they see a Tie fighter!
I want some good dockable friendly spacestations you can walk in, and some PROPER story based missions. It would save my day if that was implemented. And please, let us be able to set for example all power to the engines when we try to make a run for it. I don't need any power what so ever to the lasers when I run? It's not like I'm turning to face 10 pirates with my shield practically down.
In the old games you have maybe up to tertiary mission objectives which can be everything from protecting cargo ships to making whackamole of a star destroyer(Although my personal favourite was setting up a coustom and whacking a super star destroyer on Balance of Power!
)As far as I know of(and I'm presuming this since I'm not very far in the prof of rebel pilot, but ive heard stories) there are no star destroyers for us to whackamole! You can't dock with a main rebel ship to get free repairs and a refill. After all the Rebel alliance/Imps should be reloading you for free.
The only thing you can blow up is the corvette!
There are more than 10 starships in the galaxy
And grinding on the ground is completely different... then you can normally outrun your enemy with a burst run...
Last night i did a normal duty mission, and the last stupid tie got to close to some black suns... In a matter of seconds my rear shield was bust even though my astromech put power to rear shield. I had to eject :@ and landed to repair and get my wounds healed. Now I don't mind getting attacked by pirates... but most pirates in the other games run like chickens when they see a Tie fighter!
I want some good dockable friendly spacestations you can walk in, and some PROPER story based missions. It would save my day if that was implemented. And please, let us be able to set for example all power to the engines when we try to make a run for it. I don't need any power what so ever to the lasers when I run? It's not like I'm turning to face 10 pirates with my shield practically down.
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