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Thread: Thunderheart Please Read. Instanced Docking Bays.
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Herbsman
Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:56 pm
#1
I've been reading the forums alot and looking for information on how you access your ship, and as far as I've been able to find out, it appears that you go to a starport, open your datapad and activate your ship. You're then immediately shown a loading screen and JTL loads up. The next thing you know, you're in space.
Alot of people dislike this idea, especially roleplayers and those who's main interests are in multi-passanger ships. Therefor I have come up with this proposal for instanced docking bays, which I believe might not be too difficult to implement and would add alot of immersion and improve upon gameplay when JTL comes out.
First things first. Here's a map I've made of the current starport (starting planets that is, excluding the Theed Starport). As you can see on the left we have the current layout of the starport and on the right you can see my proposal.
Now on the current map we have two corridors leading to the landing area. I hardly ever see anybody using the righ corridor and it seems to me that it's just a big waste of space. So why not simply delete those rooms and add instanced docking bays throughout the starport where there is space.
The way this would work is, you would add doors leading to these docking bays from the primary landing area which players will use to access their docking bays. The docking bays would not even have to be modeled onto the starport model, because they are instanced. All you would really have to do is wall off the entrance and exit to the right corridor.
Now, here's how the docking bays work. If you enter a docking bay, it spawns your personal hanger. Inside are all of the ships that you own in your datapad. If you want to use a starfighter, you simply get in and take off via a loading screen. If you want to use a multi-passanger ship, you enter your ship via the ramp or door and walk into the cockpit and sit down at the controls and activate the ship. Then you get the loading screen. This wouldn't create lag for anyone outside because they don't have to load any of the contents of your docking bay.
So what happens if you want to take a group with you onto the ship. Simple. You would have to group with them first. Let's say you have a group of 8 people. 5 of them want to go with you on your multi-passanger ship and the rest want to use their own fithers. Then the owner of the multi-passanger ship would enter docking bay 1 for example, thereby spawning his personal docking bay. Any group members entering the same docking bay as he did will be entering his instanced docking bay. The others would simply enter docking bays 2-4.
Now what happens if all members want to use fighters and there are only 4 docking bays. Well, they would simply wait for the 10 seconds or so that it takes for the group member that's allready using the docking bay to take off. This creates a minor feel of a take off cue. But it would never be a long wait because it only applies to group members. If the wait is bothering you, simply leave the group and enter the door.
The reason why I'm proposing this is mostly to create more immersion and also because having to go to space simply to pick up something you have in your cargo hold might be allright in the beginning, but when you're starting to have to do it frequently it will get pretty annoying and time consuming.
This way you can enter your docking bay and view all of your ships at the same time. You can enter your ship, drop a shipment of cargo in the cargo hold, pick up some stuff and exit without ever having to go to space.
For added realism, it might be an idea to allow those on the ground to see ships take off and land. It shouldn't be too taxing on the game because these models would all follow a pre-programmed flight path, the models are probably simpler or equally simple as a character model. If not, then it's pretty easy to create simplified versions of starships. Most 3D packages offer a modifier whereby this can be achieved by just a few clicks of a button. And it would be really cool to see different types of ships take off and land at starports.
What about the scaling of starships? Well, I know that some of the starships might not really fit in the docking bays that I've mapped out, but the docking bays are instanced so they can be as big as they need to be. It would be a bit of a case of an interior being bigger than the outside look of the place but still, I think it's worth it for adding something like this. And the models of the ships taking off and landing could be scaled down for this.
So, what do you guys think?
Message Edited by Herbsman on 07-27-2004 01:58 PM
BOYD
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:07 pm
#2
brilliant, only thing i could see as a problem is that most people only use one or two starports/spaceports so you would be getting 10 people every minute going into each of those bays, would they just not see the others personal bays? and what would people outside see? 10 ships all cluster fuc*ed together? lol great idea though
cheeselover2000
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:08 pm
#3
Or, even easier, a new destination is added at starports for JTLS people, which is Space station, which is where you'd have your instanced hangar. Might make more since as you fly to the space station to exit right?
TheCoredump
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:15 pm
#4
Yes, I agree with you. In fact I wanted to post exactly the same thing 
My idea is a bit different.
Hangar bay could be like a small starport building. When you enter into it, you enter in your own hangar and you see your own ship.
In order to enter in the same instance, you have to group. In group you enter in the leader hangar.
Maybe something like 4 or 5 personal hangar could be build in NPC city in order to give the Mos Eisley feeling... "hangar bay 94"
My idea is a bit different.Hangar bay could be like a small starport building. When you enter into it, you enter in your own hangar and you see your own ship.
In order to enter in the same instance, you have to group. In group you enter in the leader hangar.
Maybe something like 4 or 5 personal hangar could be build in NPC city in order to give the Mos Eisley feeling... "hangar bay 94"
cheeselover2000
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:22 pm
#5
Oooo, and you could have new player city building: Hangar Bay, so you can launch ships from there, instead of the shuttleport which makes a little less sense.
Dynonychus
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:23 pm
#6
Well you know I'm all for it 
I'm not sure about having to group, though, although I guess it does solve some logistical problems. I guess my problem with grouping is that my past experiences have largely consisted of waiting around for a long time whilst potential groupmates assemble, and then are added in once they arrive. With a door code, you could send that to your potential group, then be inside the hanger mucking about with your ship until they arrive.
With multiple ships on the tarmac, also, there's the potential for server lag. Not personal lag, as the hanger would still be fairly small and devoid of NPCs and the like, but having so many ships out at once means the server has to send out the codes for each ship and it's mods to be rendered by each individual in the hanger. With lots of people potentially creating lots of instanced hangers (especially on the first day!), they would still need to keep the load as light as possible.
comiskeyechew
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:25 pm
#8
everyone overt ur gaze from herbsman!!! Were not worthy! I so a future dev in u herbsman!!!
*20 minute standing ovation*
*whissle*
great plans...very extrensive too.
We arent worthy of herbsman because he is a fellow player but we r completely unworthy of all the devs in the game.....they r magicians and gods of the gaming industry
devs please take alook at this.....if not high on the list i just want it on it
Herbsman
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:28 pm
#9
The problems with adding new building is that then they'd have to make room in alot of towns to do so. Modifying the existing starport to fit these needs would be much easier. The only modeling required in my proposal is walling off the right corridor and simply just deleting it. Then modeling the interior of the instanced docking bays and the doors leading to them. It would take a minimal ammount of time as far as design goes. A day or two at the most. Coding would of course take much longer.
As far as a clutter of ships goes, it wouldn't really pose as a problem. Because nobody sees the ships except the person inside the instanced docking bay and perhaps people seeing them take off (the take off sequence isn't nessecary, it's optional.) The entire takeoff sequence would only take about 5-10 seconds and I doubt you'd be seeing hundreds of ships take off at the same time because there's never hundreds of people at the starport, except maybe on corronet and that's only because they're all waiting for the shuttle instead of just taking off on their own ships. The takeoffs would be spread out over the 10 minutes it takes for all those people to gather in the starports so it would mean even less lag actually.
As far as people entering the same docking bay, I need to clarify this a bit. If one guy goes into a docking bay and another immediately follow who isn't in his group, they would each get their own instanced docking bay. Not the same one. And these docking bays are only loaded on their computer, not everyone elses so it wouldn't add any lag at all to the game. In order for two people to enter the same docking bay, they would have to be groupped and enter the same docking bay before the owner of the docking bay takes off in his ship.
cheeselover2000
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:32 pm
#10
Dynonychus wrote:
I'm not sure about having to group, though, although I guess it does solve some logistical problems. I guess my problem with grouping is that my past experiences have largely consisted of waiting around for a long time whilst potential groupmates assemble, and then are added in once they arrive. With a door code, you could send that to your potential group, then be inside the hanger mucking about with your ship until they arrive.
With multiple ships on the tarmac, also, there's the potential for server lag. Not personal lag, as the hanger would still be fairly small and devoid of NPCs and the like, but having so many ships out at once means the server has to send out the codes for each ship and it's mods to be rendered by each individual in the hanger. With lots of people potentially creating lots of instanced hangers (especially on the first day!), they would still need to keep the load as light as possible.
If the hanagrs are going to bve instanced, like the corvette, then you have to group to get into the instanced hangar, and I suppose it would be the group leaders multiperson ships that would be displayed. Youc an't really have a number you type in cause it'd be confusing and you could forget it and it would be a complicated system to assign them and then the sheer number of people...
I think instanced would be best as long as they'd be able to handle that many instanced hangars at once =/
lovewillkill
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:34 pm
#11
That's a great idea. Go ahead and program it, and I'm sure the Devs would love to include it. As it is, I'd rather have the game come out on schedule, and possibly consider revising the ship launching system some time after the combat revamp.
C
Herbsman
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:36 pm
#12
Well servers in other games seem to be able to handle a whole lot of instanced stuff so why not here as well. I know that the servers of SWG are maybe not as up to the task but still, I only see this as being heavy on the servers for the first month or so. After that it would be reduced significantly.
As far as having to wait for your group members to arrive, simply go in and muck about with your ship and when they arrive at the starport, exit, invite them to group and enter again. If they're allready in your group then that won't even be nessecary. Remember, the window of entering a group members hangar bay only closes when the hangar owner either exits the hangar or takes off in his ship.
cheeselover2000
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:38 pm
#13
Herbsman wrote:
The problems with adding new building is that then they'd have to make room in alot of towns to do so. Modifying the existing starport to fit these needs would be much easier. The only modeling required in my proposal is walling off the right corridor and simply just deleting it. Then modeling the interior of the instanced docking bays and the doors leading to them. It would take a minimal ammount of time as far as design goes. A day or two at the most. Coding would of course take much longer.
I mean add a new building called a hangarthat can be placed in player towns so that you can launch your craft from player built towns =) I think they were talking about eltting you use the shuttleport to launch from in player cities, but it would be much cooler to have a player craftable building called a hangar that could be built and placed in player towns that allows access to instanced hanagrs for launching =)
Your definately right about NPC cities tho, it would definately be easier to modify an existing building, although I think it might be even easier to buy a ticket to space station that orbits all the planets and then have your instanced hangars up there. To get back to planetside you have to "interact/dock" with these orbital stations anyways right?
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