Jump To Lightspeed Archive

---

Ducimus wrote:
PvP in space is a twitch game. It was designed that way. PvP on the ground is typical RPG stuff. Uberstacker template, uber armor, uber buffs, etc etc.

A person who has more time to grind on the ground will do better in PvP. For the most part, PvP in space, all time commitments are equal in that no amount of time "grinding" will give you an advantage over your opponent.

In short, theres two different PvP styles in this game. In space, its much like a FPS. Fast and furious. Your success of failure dpends on your skill as a pilot versues your oppoents. If you can't handle being "instagibbed", thats a personal problem. On the ground PvP is much more slow as whoever has the time to grind the better character will probably win. Ground and space are inheirantly opposite of each other by the very nature of the gameplay.

Many MMORPG players ive known in the past dislike FPS style deathmatch PvP sencarios, which is what JTL parrells in PvP. And why shouldn't it? Whats more games like Xwing vs Tie fighter were as equally as deadly. The game is in context to what it is.


My point is, complaints like this one worry me. The other day i watched a Jedi and a polearm melee type go at it. I watched them for 30 minutes and there was no end in sight. The day PvP becomes like PvP on the ground is the day its time to find a new game to play.

PvP's biggest problem isn't the damage, the problem is theres no reason to fight each other.

---

Well put. JTL is the way pvp should be in rpgs, and should like that for ground also - think Deus Ex....

---

StevenFullyard wrote:

No way im gonna tell you!

I played X-Wing vs Tie Fighter a very long time and i

DO remember very GOOD how the fights were

and what crazy stuff we did and pvped all time.

But the damage you deal compared to same level

tier 5 starships is just sick. And about FPS .

I really dont think that in ANY way i saw every a tiefighter

or any fighter killing another fighter with just ONE hit or

2 hits .. the deathstar maybe.

It should be like a 3:1 ratio. You get 3 times less damage

as you just got before against players and its still skill

even more skill to be honest.

---

---

iej wrote:

overall i think i agree with steven, my trouble in deep space is that i never get a chance to find out if I have any skill as a pilot or not because, 1.. 2... dead. now as im not lvl 1 seems out of synch with game to be killed so easily. In space is different to on ground combat surely, on ground you just face each other and fight, in space the skill is getting behind your enemy keeping there until you kill him but if you are never allowed to get into the situation where you can use your flying skills........ result , i dont go to deep space anymore because i return straight away, the ultimate rubber band effect, lol

Zodian

---

ok. i'm not trying to be mean here, but are you flying straight at them when you see the enemy? if so that's why you don't get to show off you're skills. the head-head pass is oh so important. if you get by that then you can start to show off your skills. but getting by one hte head to head is all about twisting and moving.. not flying straight to them with all guns a blazing.. that's the quickest way to the space station. just like in xvt if you flew straight then you died.

if you are juking on the head to head then you need to rethink your strategy a little... every encounter is different and needs to be adjusted to accordingly... I can't get behind every player I go against, but that doesn't mean I can't win. it just takes a little different approach. if you're in DS then use your factions gunboats to your advantage... if your in Lok, use the asteroids... just because someone gets on your tail doesn't mean they won. they have an advantage for sure, but they still have to hit you. its not like the ground where you just hit a button and the computer does all the aiming and shooting for you.

Decimus, your post was perfect and right on target. Ground rpg vs flying fps(twitch) is a great example.

PvP in space is a twitch game. It was designed that way. PvP on the ground is typical RPG stuff. Uberstacker template, uber armor, uber buffs, etc etc.

A person who has more time to grind on the ground will do better in PvP. For the most part, PvP in space, all time commitments are equal in that no amount of time "grinding" will give you an advantage over your opponent.

In short, theres two different PvP styles in this game. In space, its much like a FPS. Fast and furious. Your success of failure dpends on your skill as a pilot versues your oppoents. If you can't handle being "instagibbed", thats a personal problem. On the ground PvP is much more slow as whoever has the time to grind the better character will probably win. Ground and space are inheirantly opposite of each other by the very nature of the gameplay.

Many MMORPG players ive known in the past dislike FPS style deathmatch PvP sencarios, which is what JTL parrells in PvP. And why shouldn't it? Whats more games like Xwing vs Tie fighter were as equally as deadly. The game is in context to what it is.


My point is, complaints like this one worry me. The other day i watched a Jedi and a polearm melee type go at it. I watched them for 30 minutes and there was no end in sight. The day PvP becomes like PvP on the ground is the day its time to find a new game to play.

PvP's biggest problem isn't the damage, the problem is theres no reason to fight each other.

StevenFullyard wrote:

Hi there Guys !

I really need to tell you this and i hope there is a dev who will read that too !

It took some time for me (as a casual player) to get my master and it is even

more time to do all the component-grinding and fly and fly and hope to get

good and useable space parts to create the uber fighter in space.... but !

For some reason i really like to play different kind of ships and flying

with a-wing , y-wing mostly and for another reason i really adore the bwing

(even if that is really painful flying compared a-wing ..) and trying to get as much

parts as i can get. That is NOT my problem !

Not having any fun going into pvp , not because i may be a bad pilot and i

just cant win and do little baby cry stuff about it. It isnt just right that you need

so long to kill tier 5 fighters and then you meet another player in

deepspace and BAM BAM , 2 hits and youre just dead ? Even if there is

NO decay (what i really appreciate) on those components it really pushes

my mood doing pvp and space things general down to the ground where

the neighbours doggy put his pile... hehe.

You are definitely not alone in this thinking. Personally pvp doesn't look appealing because it's been thrown in with PvE in deep space. I hate that there isn't a more focused area that is built soley for pvp. If they want to mix pvp and pve in the same zone like deep space it would help a lot to adjust damage between the 2 things so they match up. If they make a new zone that is pvp only and the pve elements are basically mission critical targets things would possibly change alot. But first thing they need to fix is droid programs. Weapon overload 3 for starters.

pvp in jtl is damn near perfect.

if your pilot skills suck, or you are not paying attention, you die, as it should be. im not even sure what the complaint about tier 5 ships is, but if you have that much trouble kiling them, your equiptment sucks. in my adv, i can vape tier 5's in 15-40 seconds (yea, i timed it and averaged it out to see how much fp i could make per hour (3-7k fp )).

it sounds to me like you do not have 'uber gear' yet, and want to go toe to toe with the big guys.

as to pilot skills, get a buddy to fly with you, load up ships with the most craptacular weapons you can find, and go out and duel each other. just realise, you will probably get owned by people who have been playing online flight sims. having played ww2online (ww2 air/land/sea mmog), im used to flying along, and boom, 40mm bofors burst explodes your plane and you are dead. that's how being a pilot is. one min, everything is beautiful, next, you're dead

one more thing, if you want to pvp, you don't have to go to deep space. just hit your factional station and declare. i always fly declared, you get fp for bad guys, and there is always the hope to vape a live person.

Message Edited by GlargTheKelfn on 02-25-2005 09:40 AM

---

GlargTheKelfn wrote:
pvp in jtl is damn near perfect.

Can you explain why it is so perfect? And why Deep space is always empty? If it was perfect then people would be using it no? I go up to deep space a lot and I've seen mabye 5 friendly ships and 1 enemy ship the entire time. (never more than 1 at a time though) Not saying that there aren't more ppl going in there, but I just don't understand how anyone can think the pvp in jtl is perfect.

I see a lot of comments like this but no one seems to back it up with any examples.

---

Tumbler2002 wrote:

---

GlargTheKelfn wrote:
pvp in jtl is damn near perfect.

Can you explain why it is so perfect? And why Deep space is always empty? If it was perfect then people would be using it no? I go up to deep space a lot and I've seen mabye 5 friendly ships and 1 enemy ship the entire time. (never more than 1 at a time though) Not saying that there aren't more ppl going in there, but I just don't understand how anyone can think the pvp in jtl is perfect.

I see a lot of comments like this but no one seems to back it up with any examples.

---

Most people that play rpgs are not into pvp, and, depending on your source, the % of people that pvp is very small, 5%-10%. That is why pvp zones are empty.

I used to play AO a long time ago, and they had a survey about pvp, those that were into it amounted to about 7%-10% of the subscriber base.

And you have answered your own question, the example you ask for are those comments, pvp is fine as it is in JTL.

And you have answered your own question, the example you ask for are those comments, pvp is fine as it is in JTL.
1 person in deep space at a time isn't fine in my book. And if 5-10% of the players are into pvp (which seems too low in JTL's case) where are these people? They aren't in deep space. 10% is 1/10. For how many ppl are on each server is sure doesn't match up with these figures.

I strongly disagree that pvp in this game is even remotely close to perfect. What we have is the ability to duel just like on the ground. And just like on the ground one profession (class of ship in this case) is able to best anything on the field. (See many rifleman on the ground?) We need a purpose to fight each other, rewards for winning and later on very light penalties for losing.

And fix the droid programs, A-wings would probably be a lot less powerful if they had to compensate for using massive amounts of energy and cap/shot when using wpn overload 3.

>>but are you flying straight at them when you see the enemy? if so that's why you don't get to show off you're skills. the head-head pass is oh so important.


The initial engagegment makes or breaks the fight. Or rather, initial engagement is acutally the most dangerous part of a fight and getting past it is half the battle.

Another thing that worries me is the people who complain about space PvP, ill wager, most of them are acting as if they are still flying PvE. The two are totally oppsite and require different approaches in mindset. In PvE, ya, ill fly straight at the oncoming ship. PvP, doing that is like playing russian roullette.


Honestly i think PvP in JTL as it is now.. the days are numbered. I think Eventually the devs will give in, and shift from their orginal vision of a fast action twitch game akin to the Tie fighter Sim series or Xwing vs Tie fighter (which is how it SHOULD BE)... to a slow, turn based RPG like the ground game.

The key to it all is ego. Be they l33t d00d3z or Roleplayers, people like their ego fed and stroked, and when its not, they will complain loudly. Right now i think the only people who really do enjoy JTL, are old simulation fans like myself. Which is the only reason i started (restarted SWG) to begin with. I wanted my modernized version of Tie fighter or Xwing Vs Tie figther. The SWG game on the ground isnt that much different from any other MMO, and if i wanted to grind levels, or play Levelquest, or Campquest, id play any one of the many other MMORPGs out there that are, quite honestly, far more engaging on the ground the SWG currently is.