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Thread: ok, lets be fair: NO 75% pvp reduction, but numbers should be looked at
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rahzael
Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:46 am
#1
ive seen post after post asking for a reduction in damage in pvp, with voices on both sides of the argument.
perhaps 75% reduction would be the easy way out...but the problem is NOT going away
on one side youve got those who like the fact that if your fast, youll live, if your not, youll die immediately. fair enough. extreme emphasis on skill
on the other you got people who are on the other side of a lucky shot and die in less than a second.
the point is, the system is unforgiving atm. whether its "newb equipment" syndrome where we havent played long enough to get good stats, or plain unbalanced, its too harsh IMO.
obviously, the 75% reduction on the ground has pleased some and peeved off some others. fair enough. space is where we can start fresh.
then lets take the smart road. all of those on both sides of the argument have to meet in the middle. weve got to understand that 75% off damage will anger those looking for a rush.
everyone else has to understand that for those of us who dont get the lucky shot off, its not fun to die in two seconds.
maybe, just like they added inherentlimitations on different chassis to make them perform differently from other ships by placing inherent agility numbers on the chassis, maybe their should be some bonuses for different chassis. an a-wing would only get a 500-1000 bonus to their shields while a b wing would get a 5000 bonus to their shields, with the shields providing the base number.so if your b wing has 1800-2100 shields equiped, the actual number will be 6000-ish, while an a wing with 1800-2100 shields equiped would actually be 2300-2600. easy prey like a wings (which are balanced by their manuverability) would hit in a few hits, but perhaps a few more hits than now, while bombers will, as they should be, take much longer to kill.
secondly, lets make sure that the best weapon wont be more powerful than the best shield. having master level weapons with 2000-2500 damage and shields with 1800-2200 makes no sense, leading to one hit kills.
if you dont agree, please say so. ive been flamed on this subject already, and i think its time we all meet in the middle and make things fun for those who like quick fights and those who want longer fights. if you have your own more detailed ideas, here is your shot.
Jindain
Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:54 am
#2
what happens to your ship when u get shot down in PVP, what are the bad things about it?
Bleemo
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:13 pm
#3
bad thing is, everytime u repair ur ship it decays regardless of PvE or PvP.
components and chassis will decay.
so, and if u dont have a chance to defend since u die in 1-2 hits, ppl can
grief u and u will lose millions of credits. U cant finish ur master quests
also, when u cant get into kessel.
alright everything decays, but if ur stuff decays that fast, since u want to
finish ur quest and not be able to,... it shld be changed somehow.
components and chassis will decay.
so, and if u dont have a chance to defend since u die in 1-2 hits, ppl can
grief u and u will lose millions of credits. U cant finish ur master quests
also, when u cant get into kessel.
alright everything decays, but if ur stuff decays that fast, since u want to
finish ur quest and not be able to,... it shld be changed somehow.
Schadwe13
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:31 pm
#4
I disagree. If someone has better equipent than you, a faster ship or better skills you have a very good chance of being blown out of the sky. Nothing wrong with that. Not everything has to be EVEN or Fair. Personally I'm tired of these ground PvP fights that last 30 minutes because of 75% reduction. This game has already been nerfed to hell because of adolescent whiners. If you die from a lucky shot or within 3 seconds of the start of a fight, then that means you were overpowered. Again, nothing wrong with someone being more powerful than others. Deal with it. Nothing wrong with dying before you get a shot off because you were ambushed. That's now fighting works. Simple.
Lear how to fight. Learn tactics. Learn not to go PvP if you can't handle someone being better than you. Learn humility...
Learn not to cry if you loose.
Lear how to fight. Learn tactics. Learn not to go PvP if you can't handle someone being better than you. Learn humility...
Learn not to cry if you loose.
rahzael
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:43 pm
#5
why is it that everyone automatically assumes that those who bring up these problems are skillless crying nubs.
its not like im flying a z 95 with lvl 3 equipment in kessel. im 4433 in an x wing, using a droid with my favorite commands ready.
of course not everything will be "fair" in your sense. not everyone will be as skilled as the best player. the thing is, its not about whos best, but who gets the first shot.
pvp is reminiscent of sniper duels in other games. its all about finding one another. whoever finds the other first wins in one hit. period. is that what space pvp will be?
i want space to be seperate from the borked ground game. but if combat will take 1 second, many will give up pvp completely, and then only those who are "skilled" will see that it will take on hit to kill you...one...3 at most with them having worthless weapons or you having uber shields.
i want to reach out and meet halfway. im not crying, but if your just going to proclaim "its whiners, lets troll", im not going to get anywhere am i. im not unfallible, i want to see if there is something both sides will enjoy.
and im sure you cant be serious about "tactics" in space, whn it devolves into spinning in circles. the second you try and break it off, roll, anyhting, you are hit and die.
1 hit kills is not fun. the ground with 75% red. is not fun. i see it from your side, see it from my side too.
Bloodshead
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:14 pm
#6
See no matter how you word it, ppl think if pvp is changed that = the ground game. Geez ffs ppl stop thinking of the ground game already.
I mean look at my "petition to move master mission out of kessel" just because i mentioned pvp damagereduction, ppl seem to think I mean I want pvp nerfed wt.f.
anyways, your solution sounds good, but the real problem is that npc equipment does not = pc equipment. the tier 3 guys have like 40k shields and blasters that do 500 damage. Make npc and pc equipmentequal and it will be like the dogfighting you got going on right now. Maybe some tier 5 stuff can have like max 1k damage weapons and 5k max shields. That would lead to more strategy instead of: x flying around looking for targets. Xseesy - x kills y.
atytula
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:24 pm
#7
Rahzael, I did bring up something similar in Beta. I said that everything should be based on mass. Heavier ships could afford to put bigger sheilds and more weapons, but having a larger mass would result in being slower and less maneuverable. The devs took what I (and others) said and partially implmented it. While I don't think that there should be skill modifiers, I think it should be based on the total mass of ship.
Personally, I would like to see a 75% reduction on player damage (PvE and PvP) and a 90% reduction in NPC sheilds and armor. It takes way to long to destory an NPC vs a player which makes no sence. Either players are really tough too, or NPCs should be brought down to our level. Instead they should make better AI.
truewildman
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:33 pm
#8
You all have to remember that it's very difficult to narrow the margin like that. There is a wide margin of players with a wide range of varying skill degrees. The way the NPC are right now fits close to the middle of that wide margin.
Evidence of that is you have ones saying it's too hard, ones saying it's too easy, and some saying it's perfect. Take all those opinions, apply the law af averages, and you have a close balance (I'll never say perfect balance, because nothing's perfect and that would be an unrealistic expectation).
That's why we have instanced PvP zones, and even those are at two different degrees. Kessel, which anyone can go into, and Deep space which only masters with 30,000 prestige points can enter and truly test their skills.
Kanaric
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
#9
IMO there should be no penalties when you die in pvp. That way if you get pked nothing bad happens.
Also i noticed that a lot of people complaining about PVP are saying "OMG I GOT 2222 AND AM GETTING KILLED IN 1 OR 2 SHOTS!". Do you have decent skills to do pvp or are you stupid? If your not stupid and you are 4444 or master then look at your equipment.
I can easily say i dont die in one or 2 shots and i'm 4433.
Message Edited by Kanaric on 11-04-2004 01:38 PM
Kadix
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:11 pm
#10
At the moment, an appropriately equipped high level ship can be destroyed by another similiarly equipped high level ship in one or two shots. WIth 75% damage reduction, you can take 4 to 8 hits.
Now, consider that an X-Wing (and B-Wing also I believe) mounts 3 projectile weapons with a refire rate of approximately 0.35 seconds. As it is, you can distroy another player's ship in less than 0.35 seconds (since the delay is after the shot not before it). With the suggested 75% PvP reduction, you are looking at needing 1.05 seconds to kill someone.
Can we say 95% reduction?
truewildman
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:16 pm
#11
Kadix wrote:
At the moment, an appropriately equipped high level ship can be destroyed by another similiarly equipped high level ship in one or two shots. WIth 75% damage reduction, you can take 4 to 8 hits.
Now, consider that an X-Wing (and B-Wing also I believe) mounts 3 projectile weapons with a refire rate of approximately 0.35 seconds. As it is, you can distroy another player's ship in less than 0.35 seconds (since the delay is after the shot not before it). With the suggested 75% PvP reduction, you are looking at needing 1.05 seconds to kill someone.
Can we say 95% reduction?
Here's a hint: Stay outta their blaster fire.
Others can do it. As with all twitch-based human-skill required game, you're going to have some that can and some that can't. Already there are barons up there that don't get hit. Be one of them, and practice until you can.
We're too used to the ground combat, which requires 0 skills. Come away from that thought process.
SkeeterWhateley
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:37 pm
#12
personally i dont think a reduction should be put in place. ships in star wars blew up in 1or 2 hits. sure some may have lasted longer, but the majority of them,blew up when in direct fire from an enemy ship. plus i dont wanna be dogfighting for an hour an a half tryin to kill someone and all you've managed to do is take out 1% of their shields. (much like the ground game) leave it as is. its fast, and fun. heck, even when im on the losing end, i still think its fun.
AntiZero2045
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:06 pm
#13
Boo Skeeter! How dare you bring up the logic of "it was in the movies" in a MMORPG. You know that can't work! It takes little to no skill to win in PvP, as one shot = disabled, two shot = dead. The first shot is easy to land, it's the ones after that when you get into a dogfight where the real skills come in.
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