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Thread: Question...why does the AI now *SLOW DOWN* in dogfights?

KaylBreinhar
Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:50 am
#1

No self respecting pilot I've ever met would EASE OFF on the throttle when he (or she now) was taking fire, so what in God's name is this "B-Wings slow down from 759kph to 375kph when shot" crap? Same deal with the Y-Wings, and even X-Wings and A-Wings just decide "oh boop, I'll just cut my speed in half at random intervals."

This isn't Top Gun - because the maneuver smacks of "I'll hit the brakes and he'll fly right by."

I thought this game was supposed to be fast-paced - putzing around at 375kph isn't fast-paced! If this is some change to make it "easier," all it's accomplished is making things more frustrating. Also, I thought we beta testers made it clear that sliding wasn't our idea of fun....

All it takes to invalidate the AI now is laying on the /matchspeed key.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 08:54 AM



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
n3Ph
Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:55 am
#2

perhaps it may have something to do with the AI finally recognizing that even npc pilots of worth will know that to fly and turn efficiently, you must slow down or use throttle to gain the optimum turning speed while dogfighting ?





Teepee-WigWam(Commando) ~ Lurka(armoursmith) ~ nePh(jedi) ~ enOwa(Shipwright)
Heroes of many Games
RtCW ~ ET ~ CS:S ~ SWG ~ EQ2 ~ BF1942 ~ BF:V ~ WoW

After getting bored of almost every game on the planet, it would seem the call of the force has once again
begun to draw me towards my true destiny...

TeePee-WigWam & nePh are back!

KaylBreinhar
Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:59 am
#3


n3Ph wrote:
perhaps it may have something to do with the AI finally recognizing that even npc pilots of worth will know that to fly and turn efficiently, you must slow down or use throttle to gain the optimum turning speed while dogfighting ?



Yes, but NPC craft are equipped with mythical engines that can turn 90 degrees on a dime no matter what speed they're travelling at - the slowdowns on Y-Wings and B-Wings are permanent. Shoot them, and they gradually slow down until they're moving at the speed of a fart. If anything, the AI has been lobotomized since 11.3 - a flight of five B-Wings used to give me trouble with constant missile shots, now they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

With A-Wings and X-Wings, it's just an incredible sporadic annoyance that doesn't make them harder to kill, it just takes you marginally longer to do it.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 09:01 AM



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
truewildman
Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:00 am
#4

I slow down in dogfights.


The point is, when going fast and juking doesn't work, slam on the brakes to try to get the opponent to pass you.


Actually, it works. It puts you on their tail. You ought to try it sometime.





Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
KaylBreinhar
Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:05 am
#5


truewildman wrote:
I slow down in dogfights.
The point is, when going fast and juking doesn't work, slam on the brakes to try to get the opponent to pass you.
Actually, it works. It puts you on their tail. You ought to try it sometime.



Actually, engaging the AI at 799kph helps immensely...but given my PvP record thus far, I don't think I need advice on dogfighting.

The first rule of aerial combat is "speed is life" - the X-Wings and A-Wings function as you're suggesting...but the B-Wings and Y-Wings just keep slowing down until they're flying at ridiculously slow speeds.

Forgive me for wanting an extra challenge. I'm the same person who says NPC Y-Wings should get turrets because I'm tired of hearing how "Imperials have it better since they don't have to fight Aggressors!"

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 09:06 AM



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
KaylBreinhar
Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:07 am
#6

I also do very much love it when any post even PASSIVELY suggests that the game should be made MARGINALLY more difficult gets one-starred by those who want everything handed to them.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 09:14 AM



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
truewildman
Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:14 am
#7

With the Bwings and Ywings, I think they're trying to do the same thing, but their acceleration/deceleration rate stinks so bad, that's the resulting effect. It does need to be addressed.





Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
darmokVtS
Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:40 am
#8

5 * for you Jotun.

Any AI change that makes the PvE part of JTL less challenging is a bad idea :/.

We already lack challenging PvE content for Aces, changes like this that make the existing PvE even easier are seriously harming the fun of playing JTL as an Ace.

We need *more* challenging things for Aces/Masters, not less.




Kope Sanisa, Medic / Imperial Pilot Ace
McGyver, Smuggler / Imperial Pilot Ace
Allanar Jansan, Commando / Freelance Pilot
Aden_Nak
Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:13 am
#9

The game is TRYING to follow the rules of cornering and decelleration, I think. But the AI is flying its slower ships in a very untallented manner, even at the higher Tiers. Anyone who happily flies a boat like a Y-Wing or a B-Wing will tell you that unless you are rolling to maximize your cornering, you are dead in space. The AI doesn't seem to use roll for anything, at least not in a way that is beneficial or constructive.



Esparta Crane
Ace Alliance Pilot


(X)==\__/==(X)

Y-Wings Are Old School

Blackjack_Nova
Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:29 am
#10

Do we want the AI to follow the same rules that we have to follow? For the most part yes we do. But we also want

the AI to be challanging and fun to fight against.


The AI has for the most past, made some vast improvements over the last several patchs, some flight dynamics are not
dead on however and I think the ships slowing down is one of them. They should be slowing in the turns just as we have too

but they should not be slowing down otherwise. It looks to me like a few tweaks are in order, but not tweaks that give ships
capabilities that go beyond the player characters.




Blackjack Nova

<Rebel Scum>

NasherUK
Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:55 am
#11






KaylBreinhar wrote:




truewildman wrote:

I slow down in dogfights.


The point is, when going fast and juking doesn't work, slam on the brakes to try to get the opponent to pass you.


Actually, it works. It puts you on their tail. You ought to try it sometime.





Actually, engaging the AI at 799kph helps immensely...but given my PvP record thus far, I don't think I need advice on dogfighting.

The first rule of aerial combat is "speed is life" - the X-Wings and A-Wings function as you're suggesting...but the B-Wings and Y-Wings just keep slowing down until they're flying at ridiculously slow speeds.

Forgive me for wanting an extra challenge. I'm the same person who says NPC Y-Wings should get turrets because I'm tired of hearing how "Imperials have it better since they don't have to fight Aggressors!"

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 09:06 AM





I agree, the NPC Y-wings should be the turreted ones


The overall AI of rebel ships seems pretty dumb though compared to the imp ones, which run rings round them. Escpecially NPC X-wings which are supposed to be powerfulfighters:/

Message Edited by NasherUK on 12-03-2004 07:58 AM

AzzixxSWG
Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:04 am
#12






KaylBreinhar wrote:
No self respecting pilot I've ever met would EASE OFF on the throttle when he (or she now) was taking fire, so what in God's name is this "B-Wings slow down from 759kph to 375kph when shot" crap? Same deal with the Y-Wings, and even X-Wings and A-Wings just decide "oh boop, I'll just cut my speed in half at random intervals."

This isn't Top Gun - because the maneuver smacks of "I'll hit the brakes and he'll fly right by."

I thought this game was supposed to be fast-paced - putzing around at 375kph isn't fast-paced! If this is some change to make it "easier," all it's accomplished is making things more frustrating. Also, I thought we beta testers made it clear that sliding wasn't our idea of fun....

All it takes to invalidate the AI now is laying on the /matchspeed key.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 12-03-2004 08:54 AM




The ships slow down as you damage there engines just as you do as your engines get damaged. Before the patch it looked like they sped up as there engines got damaged which is the only thing I didn't like about the jousting AI, they should have left it in.


Gawzeera
Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:30 am
#13

funny how its always those that have mastered the pilot professions that complain that enemies are to easy.

I'm a crap pilot and am not afraid to admit it and i'm sure there are many players out there that are like me and have to do missions multiple times before getting it right. I say leave the AI as it is on missions, it provides me with enough of a challenge to still be fun.


but there should be more high end content added for the masters.




"Jedi. Their order is a fading light in the dark. corrupt and arrogant.They must be punished." - Asaj Ventress Clone wars Micro series
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