Jedi Archive

Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

I'll agree. It seems there's just a bit more tactics involved to crowd control/counter-crowd control, but the changes certainly aren't as bad as people are making them out to be.

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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woody821 wrote:

I'm a post-CU jedi (unlocked Sept 27th). My saber is all post-CU good pearls. 19 FC 672 max damage 96 SAC.

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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yup pistol root is like 10 sec delay now

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woody821 wrote:

I logged on after the publish and wanted to try out the new changes, including NPCs new AI and the new snare changes. At first I was just dueling friends and random people telling them to snare me and try to get away. I wanted them to go at me full force. Then I had a total of 5 BH visits yesterday in the time I was online. At the end of the day...the snare changes ARE NOT BAD. Let me explain...

I'm a post-CU jedi (unlocked Sept 27th). My saber is all post-CU good pearls. 19 FC 672 max damage 96 SAC. I am MLS/444x defender/3xx2 enh/4xxx healer. My PvP rating is average, 1617.

For non-CM snares, after I was snared at first, they were unable to snare me again. "Resisted" would flash over my head as if some sort of innate snare resistance has been added so you can't be resnared over and over. I could easily catch up to them after snared and bash them into the ground.

For MCM Electrolyte Drain (the 5 BHs that came for me were all MBH/MCM), it seemed like it could stack right on top of each other. No resistance. However, keep in mind they have to GET WITHIN 12-15m TO APPLY IT!

Remember, you too can snare them and they can't burst run out of it anymore.

None of these battles were close...ever. I was never in danger of being incapacitated. When I was snared I didn't even bother to chase for the most part. I made sure aura and infusion are going, made sure I had vayerbrok or however it's spelled in my stomach, and watched them miss me.

If they are MBH/MCM their accuracy will suck and can't hit you anyway. If they aren't MCM, they dont have electrolyte drain. Their snare will only last 30 seconds at the most?

Don't get into the attitude that you can't win, or you won't. Don't panic if snared, just fight.

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The problems is not just snares but debuffs overriding buffs.

I can now be completely debuffed, snared and rooted by a MCM who took a day to grind the prof.

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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Haven't had that happen to me yet, but if it's true I'll retract my prior statement.

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Dr_Nalio wrote:

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woody821 wrote:

I'm a post-CU jedi (unlocked Sept 27th). My saber is all post-CU good pearls. 19 FC 672 max damage 96 SAC.

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I have no interest in rehashing the snare thing. I posted my feelings before where they belonged, but I had to reply to this. You must be the luckiest guy ever to tune a pearl if these honestly came after the CU. Most people I know with post-CU sabers don't even break 600 never mind go to almost 700.

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I have 10-12 pearls all over 100+ damage. Dont bother with crystals, they tune to crap. Good pearls are your best chance. It's not luck, it's math. Just keep plugging away. I've tuned about 200 pearls/crystals since I unlocked.

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DrendalKahn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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Haven't had that happen to me yet, but if it's true I'll retract my prior statement.

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To me the real issue is that the concept that ANY buff is cancelled by ANY debuff. This is fundimentally flawed because of the way professions are supposed to work. Lower level skills have no business cancelling out 100% of higher level skills which is exactly what happens here. A Tier IV buff like FR2 or Master Level FR3 shouldn't be completely negated by a Novice sklil like Knee Cap Shot. That is bad design. Its not balanced. The goal was to prevent debuffs from stacking and buffs from stacking in a way that made debuffs useless. Instead they have overbalanced it the other way and made all buffs useless in the face of any opponent with a countering debuff. Its just not a good design. I wish they would admit it and just change it but I fear they will settle on just tweaking it somehow because they have a history of being very slow to give up on a design even if its flawed at its core.

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DocSavag wrote:

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DrendalKahn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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Haven't had that happen to me yet, but if it's true I'll retract my prior statement.

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To me the real issue is that the concept that ANY buff is cancelled by ANY debuff. This is fundimentally flawed because of the way professions are supposed to work. Lower level skills have no business cancelling out 100% of higher level skills which is exactly what happens here. A Tier IV buff like FR2 or Master Level FR3 shouldn't be completely negated by a Novice sklil like Knee Cap Shot. That is bad design. Its not balanced. The goal was to prevent debuffs from stacking and buffs from stacking in a way that made debuffs useless. Instead they have overbalanced it the other way and made all buffs useless in the face of any opponent with a countering debuff. Its just not a good design. I wish they would admit it and just change it but I fear they will settle on just tweaking it somehow because they have a history of being very slow to give up on a design even if its flawed at its core.

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Hmm! sounds like you should have stayed a correspondant, Doc. Maybe you could have talked some sense into the devs. I totally agree though, the devs have a history of overdoing things way too much. The thing that bothers me is that the results of their changes are so apparent and you can see the issue without even playing the game most of the time. Then when you actually play the game, all your concerns are quickly validated. So I'm always wondering, if I can sit here without the code in front of me and read a concept the devs plan on changing and immediately see the flaws it will create when it goes live, why can't the devs do the same thing when they claim they do internal testing. It really makes me believe they don't test anything at all or at least not thorough enough or else these kinds of imbalances would never have made it into the game.

What's more disturbing though is a lot of the times these issues are found in TC but they still push the stuff live and fixes take one or two months or more before they even fix any issues. Then when they fix one issue, they introduce 4 or more other issues that should never have been touched. It's like your car gets a flat but you decide to change the whole tire, rim and axle just to fix it and that is a huge problem the devs seem to have, at least from my point of view.

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DocSavag wrote:

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DrendalKahn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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Haven't had that happen to me yet, but if it's true I'll retract my prior statement.

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To me the real issue is that the concept that ANY buff is cancelled by ANY debuff. This is fundimentally flawed because of the way professions are supposed to work. Lower level skills have no business cancelling out 100% of higher level skills which is exactly what happens here. A Tier IV buff like FR2 or Master Level FR3 shouldn't be completely negated by a Novice sklil like Knee Cap Shot. That is bad design. Its not balanced. The goal was to prevent debuffs from stacking and buffs from stacking in a way that made debuffs useless. Instead they have overbalanced it the other way and made all buffs useless in the face of any opponent with a countering debuff. Its just not a good design. I wish they would admit it and just change it but I fear they will settle on just tweaking it somehow because they have a history of being very slow to give up on a design even if its flawed at its core.

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A very valid argument.

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

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DrendalKahn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:
Have them try alternating snare with root and see if it changes your experiences. My understanding is that you can alternate the two and keep the player snared or rooted indefinitely at range.

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Haven't had that happen to me yet, but if it's true I'll retract my prior statement.

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To me the real issue is that the concept that ANY buff is cancelled by ANY debuff. This is fundimentally flawed because of the way professions are supposed to work. Lower level skills have no business cancelling out 100% of higher level skills which is exactly what happens here. A Tier IV buff like FR2 or Master Level FR3 shouldn't be completely negated by a Novice sklil like Knee Cap Shot. That is bad design. Its not balanced. The goal was to prevent debuffs from stacking and buffs from stacking in a way that made debuffs useless. Instead they have overbalanced it the other way and made all buffs useless in the face of any opponent with a countering debuff. Its just not a good design. I wish they would admit it and just change it but I fear they will settle on just tweaking it somehow because they have a history of being very slow to give up on a design even if its flawed at its core.

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Hmm! sounds like you should have stayed a correspondant, Doc. Maybe you could have talked some sense into the devs. I totally agree though, the devs have a history of overdoing things way too much. The thing that bothers me is that the results of their changes are so apparent and you can see the issue without even playing the game most of the time. Then when you actually play the game, all your concerns are quickly validated. So I'm always wondering, if I can sit here without the code in front of me and read a concept the devs plan on changing and immediately see the flaws it will create when it goes live, why can't the devs do the same thing when they claim they do internal testing. It really makes me believe they don't test anything at all or at least not thorough enough or else these kinds of imbalances would never have made it into the game.

What's more disturbing though is a lot of the times these issues are found in TC but they still push the stuff live and fixes take one or two months or more before they even fix any issues. Then when they fix one issue, they introduce 4 or more other issues that should never have been touched. It's like your car gets a flat but you decide to change the whole tire, rim and axle just to fix it and that is a huge problem the devs seem to have, at least from my point of view.

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Ehh at the time I resigned I was more than a little burned out and wondering if I was going to continue playing. That was 10 months ago

The problem for me is that I know they did test this and they got plenty of feedback about it. I also have a lot of confidence that they will eventually figure out that it isn't balanced. I have less confidence that they will address it correctly the first time.