Jedi Archive
Thread: the final straw
Page 1 of 10
Diorchas
Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:52 am
#1
First I'll start by saying that I figure on getting flamed mercilessly here for saying this. I've read this particular board for a while and I'm well aware that most of the people here do not share my playstyle. Even so, I still feel compelled to offer up my opinion one last time before I leave this game.
Today I asked a few Jedi folks on the SWGCraft boards if they knew the process for getting an invite to the Village. I asked them a little about the incoming Jedi system. I asked them about the ultimate purpose for Jedi in SWG.
What I heard was disheartening to say the least.
First and foremost, I'll say that my main character is a straight crafter/merchant. He has absolutely no combat skills because I roleplay him and his concept has no room for violence. He'll provide material help (by way of armour and resources) to the combatants, but he won't fight himself.
Also, I should say right now that there were two reasons I bought this game in the first place. To roleplay a Jedi and a Rebel Pilot.
Today I found out that is is next to impossible (or maybe it IS impossible) to obtain an invite to the Village as a non-combatant. There simply aren't enough non-combat badges. Which means that if I want to become FS I need to destroy my character as I have conceived of him.
Then I was told that the extra FS slot doesn't open until I make my main a Jedi Knight. There goes the idea of making my new slot into my Jedi. Which then means that I have to spend even MORE time playing my character in a way that is absolutely antithetical to how his background defines him.
But let's say that I did destroy everything I've spent the last year creating for him, just so I can have my Jedi. What then? Well, then I'm forced to grind an obscene amount of XP (which, we've seen, leads to an entirely different attitude in game that promotes KSing and generally being a **edit** to people) to raise my skills. This is time very few people have. I have a real life outside the game which limits my free time. What free time I DO have I'm not willing to waste 100% of it grinding in game toward what end?
Toward this end... enforced PvP. Which, the more astute of you will have already guessed, is not exactlya prospect that makes me giddy in anticipation. After all, I'd rather help someone succeed than rejoice in their downfall. Now, I know not all PvPers are like that... but can any of you honestly say that the majority of them are NOT? I didn't think so.
I've been looking forward to this game since before Atari. As a child my friends and I would pretend on the swings that were were rebel pilots moving in for the kill on the death star. And sometimes we'd pretend we were Jedi, defending truth and justice with our powers and, if absolutely necessary, our lightsabers.
Thing is... that's not what Jedi have become in this game. Jedi in SWG are nothing more than a carrot dangled in front of powergamers. Becoming a Jedi is a reward for staying in a game that is supposed to be about Star Wars but instead has become a mockery of Star Wars canon. I have not once... not ONCE... met a Jedi who actually acts like a Jedi should. That doesn't mean that RP Jedi don't exist... only that I've never met one, which means they are very rare.
Jedi in this game are far more concerned with being uber than they are with actually playing a part.
Yet do I blame the players for this? In part, sure, but the lion's share of the blame goes to the Devs. Why? Because all they are doing is playing the game as the Devs have made it. The Jedi are a powergamer's uber reward because the Devs have made them that way. The Jedi care only about grinding because the Devs have forced them to as their only way to improve their characters. The Jedi are restricted to people who either have massive amounts of time on their hands or are willing to spend most of their free time grinding millions of XP because the Devs made it that way.
And now... The entire endgame with Jedi is about PvP. In general those who are most interested in PvP are the least interested in actually creating a Star Wars-ish community. As a roleplayer, and as someone with an active life outside the game, I have almost no chance at all to roleplay a Master Jedi. And I am just the kind of person that should be playing one, because I have an interest in actually playing them as Jedi rather than as a template hound.
The Devs have chosen expedience over quality. With every move they make they further destroy the continuity of the game and the last remaining threads to any claim of Star Warsiness.
Those of you who do not know me will, reasonably, assume that prone to whining about things. Well, you'd be wrong. I may tilt at windmills occasionally, but I very rarely post things like this. It's just not worth the effort. I wanted to this time because I was hoping that maybe people would read it and think about the path the Devs have taken for this game. For Jedi.
I'll close by asking the readers to please refrain from slinging their customary insults about "jealousy", "wanting a free ride" or anything of that sort. I am not jealous of the current Jedi. Indeed, I feel pretty sorry for you. Neither do I want a free ride. If the Jedi system encouraged Jedi to act like Jedi I would do everything I could to become one in game. I fully expect people's opinions here to differ from mine, but if you do and choose to flame me, at least address the points I made instead of insulting me or making silly generalisations about me, my playstyle or my unwillingness to sacrifice my RL for the sake of a game.
Anyway, the upshot of it is that SOE is losing a mature, intelligent, creative Star Wars fan. And it's not just me. My friends are leaving in droves too. I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, I'm just stating the truth. And before too long SOE will realise that they've sacrificed most of the long term player base because of their shortsighted development policies.
Be well, my friends. And if any of you agree with me in the slightest, the best way to prove it is by actually trying to act like Jedi when you're playing one. It will make the game infinitely better if you do.
Diorchas
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:03 pm
#2
Jackal,
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.
DraxTIO
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:08 pm
#3
Diorchas wrote:
First and foremost, I'll say that my main character is a straight crafter/merchant.
LOL, um, your main crafter/merchant is the one that becomes FS. If you want to become a Jedi, you're going to HAVE to make him a combatant. Otherwise, upon unlocking your second slot, you would have to redo ALL of the steps on your second, new character to make him FS as well.
Jedi in a videogame = combat profession. Always has been, always will.
IdrisTycho
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:11 pm
#4
Diorchas wrote:
Jackal,
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.
I am not saying that you are entirely wrong, but I do recall a TON of fighting by the Jedi in the movies... Jedi are not pacifists. They do not avoid a fight. They just don't start them, and where possible they try to talk their opponents out of the fight. To say that the Jedi are not combatants is clearly incorrect though. They spend the majority of their lives learning the intricate art of fighting with a lightsaber.
Morda
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:11 pm
#5
You can make a Jedi and notpvpfor the most part if that is what you want to do. You will be hunted by BH if you make the terminals, but you aren't perma-overt until you enter the Force Ranking System and that is many millions of xp in the future. If you just want to roleplay and have a good time you could make a goodlooking Jedi with normal clothes or the robes if you like them better, have alightsaber and maybe casually grind some xp here and there to get some neat effects or skills....or not. You would still look good and be able to roleplaymany plots even with the lowest level Jedi. I was a crafter/merchant with NO weapons skills for awhile, but I still put on my ST armor and participated in roleplay events. I died more times than a sea monkey, but that wasn't the point...I was having fun and people weren't killing me to be jerks...they were just having fun too...so its all good.
As far as unlocking the Jedi with your main your friends are right...it will be much harder as a pure crafter with no combat skills, but not impossible. There are some great enhancements to crafting in the fs stuff and you should want that stuff to be a better crafter if nothing else. I would bet you have lots of good xp right now that could be converted immediately. I don't know your build, but you are probably maxed on crafting and merchant xp. It won't be as quick as somebody who is a master tk or rifleman, but you CAN do it if you really WANT to...just might take a bit longer.
Besides...maybe you will get the fs crafting stuff and whatever else you can get now andthen when JTL comes out you find out being a pilot is much more fun than being a Jedi could ever be. It's going to get pretty exciting in the next few months in my estimation and it would be a huge mistake to just give up because its difficult and time consuming. You can do it.
Diorchas
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:12 pm
#6
Rebel_Minion wrote:I am not flaming here just giving you a helping hand.First what alot of what you said is true it is a bit harder becomeing a jedi doing crafting then it is by killing some quenkers.But you were miss informed. I write FAQ's for my web site and my guild and there is a piece of info you had not recived.1.You need between 60-75 badges, you get 47 of them from exsploring the planets. Then you have a few master badges....plus your badges you get at 25 50 and 75 badges. plus your explore 15,25,35,45...Then on publish 10 the day you log in just do the /checkforce command if you even feel a faint connection to the force you will get invited into the village. I have plenty of facts to go with that, I tested it with 5 friends.Getting to the village is the easy part its the grind after that, Where it gets a bit tuff.The crafting quests when they work on test..were not that hard does not Require you to do alot of running for your life. So before ya go and get hurt and upset (just my opnion) wait till tuesday and see what connection to the force you have until then try to get 75 badges.Here is a list of the more important badgesJedi temple on DantTemple of KunForce crystal caveHave a freind who is a combat toon go with you and do both the Dark jedi and light jedi quests at the Jedi temple.Do these things from now to the 31st you will greater your chance that the old man will be beating down your door very soon.
I have gotten all the exploration badges. We'll see how much that has helped me on Pub day.
But that's not really the point. Badges or no badges, I'll still have to destroy my main character to open my FS slot. And even if I decide to do so, all that's ultimately waiting for me is an interminable grind... and at the end of THAT? Enforced PvP. These are JEDI we're talking about. Jedi use the force to defend the weak, to uphold justice and truth. Yet, if I decide to play Jedi I'll either be forced to create a cookie cutter template for him so I don't get owned or I can create him with the skills that fit his persona and get owned. The whole point is that the enforced PvP is specifically geared to the CURRENT Jedi population (who, in most cases, are powergamers/PvPers) and does not at all take into account people who just want to roleplay a Jedi. You can't do that under the new system.
My complaint is that the Devs have completely destroyed any sense of playing a Jedi as defined by canon. The only continuity between canon and this game are lightsabers and jedi robes.
Diorchas
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:14 pm
#7
IdrisTycho wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
Jackal,
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.I am not saying that you are entirely wrong, but I do recall a TON of fighting by the Jedi in the movies... Jedi are not pacifists. They do not avoid a fight. They just don't start them, and where possible they try to talk their opponents out of the fight. To say that the Jedi are not combatants is clearly incorrect though. They spend the majority of their lives learning the intricate art of fighting with a lightsaber.
Yes... in defense of the powerless, the wronged, the downtrodden. Can you with a straight face tell me that the proposed PvP system has anything at all to do with what the Jedi are about?
JACKALJOE
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:14 pm
#8
biwan: dio... i understand everyones frustrations but hang in there everyone... see how the new system is before jumping the gun. and jedi should be a combat proff...i dont remember seeing too many "dancing" jedi in the films...now they could be there haha i mean who knows.. but again every one should give the new system a chance to develop.
again i understand your feelings on it and am IN NO WAY trying to make any non combat persons feel like they dont deserve the experience. wait till tuesday and see what happens they did say they would work on a solution for non combat proffs.. maybe just maybe your class will glow with the force as a result of exploration badges something non combat.. cross your fingers.. and i wish all persons combat and non combat good luck in the new system!
Zarathustra
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:14 pm
#9
Question:
So, you're saying if you open your slot you're unhappy because you're not going to be able to role-play a master jedi immediately? Why don't you look at it from the aspect of you get to role-play a jedi struggling to make his way into the jedi order and learn the powers of jedi?
You might have a lot more fun and not see it as a grind for experience then. No one is force you to grind a ton immediately for a month straight to get to the master spot. You can roleplay the journey just as well, maybe even roleplay your own fall to the darkside.
And yes, you'll probably have to change your character to combat to open up the slot, get used to it for leveling jedi.
Also, you don't HAVE to PvP for end-game. You don't have to join the FRS. And even if you couldn't resist, any of us are pushing for changes for FRS on the horizon, and if you actually role-played a jedi out there, and didn't grind and took some time to have fun instead of the mind-numbing of killing rancors over and over, you'll probably arrive in the FRS in a time where it actually works, and it will be a completely different ballgame in it's current broken and useless state.
I'm sorry, I don't see the problem.
Diorchas
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:17 pm
#10
DraxTIO wrote:
Diorchas wrote:First and foremost, I'll say that my main character is a straight crafter/merchant.LOL, um, your main crafter/merchant is the one that becomes FS. If you want to become a Jedi, you're going to HAVE to make him a combatant. Otherwise, upon unlocking your second slot, you would have to redo ALL of the steps on your second, new character to make him FS as well.
Jedi in a video game = combat profession. Always has been, always will.
Is there any possible way that I could've illustrated my point more succinctly and eloquently than this guy did? It's this attitude and the Dev's willingness to cater to it that absolutely ruined PC Jedi.
Just a hint for you, kid... Jedi existed before KotOR and all the other FPS games featuring Jedi. Jedi are not a combat profession, they are a moral calling. The SWG Devs have MADE Jedi in this game exactly what you say they are and that's the essence of my point.
Shaft52
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:21 pm
#11
n5ygy wrote:
/agree 100%
I bought this game for the sole purpose of role playing a Jedi. Yet, it is impossible to do. I feel cheated of 7 months of my life, and all the money I have spent on this game.
If I say that my entertainment cheated me of my life, shoot me for being a warped being with no sense of reality.
Rebel_Minion
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:22 pm
#12
Diorchas wrote:
Jackal,
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.
The fact still remains that this game has very little real connection to star wars it self. This game has proven time and time again that it does make up alot of it's own rules as far as a Star Wars feel goes. I could write you a 10 page post about everything inside the game that makes little to no sence.
here is just a few to ponder.
Since the begining of the Jedi order jedi were never Soldiers..Nor did they ever fight for money and personal gain. They were all part of a bigger picture and that picture was keeping peace in the Galaxie..There are conflicting time lines in the game, That make it even harder to Discover what route the game is going in. As well as the Alien's inside the empire.
Wookies were never in the emprie due to the fact that the empire was one of the biggiest enslavers of the wookie race. Oh and lets not forget that wookies are to primitave to be a jedi. The wookie race as a whole is very aggresive..Aggresive is a large way to fall to the dark side. And as far as jedi go inside the game as of right now there is no real way to make a jedi order. Beacuse it does not exsist during this time period..So heres my closing for you Do what I am going to do, use my jedi for these 2 things.
1 Use him/her to protect your guild in heavy situations. I will only be using my jedi for fights where a Dark jedi is or may show up.
2. I use my jedi for our Allaince on Naritus we have 7 Rebel guilds that share a hate for the empire and we all help each other where help is needed. I use my jedi to Delagate between all the guilds and come to peaceful solutions..
I do not use my jedi for cred farming or to gain resources. I do not use my jedi for Duels or random pvp to show off.
I understand how you feel that jedi are no where near what they are in the movies, but this fact remains...its a game not a movie to make jedi fun and wanted by players this was the only route the Devs could go 
Morda
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:24 pm
#13
Diorchas wrote:
Jackal,
Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.
I agree with you to an extent. The current way Jedi is implemented in this game is one dimensional and short sighted. It's really only designed for people who enjoy combat. Having said that there is nothing stopping anyone from playing Jedi in a non-combat manner. You have to grind xp to get to the higher level skills and gain defense to survive, but you could also crate a character that is a pure roleplay event character and play him that way if you want to without ever killing a single nuna in anger with your lightsaber.
Even the lowliest padawan will get asaberand robes. Many Jedi look better in custom designed clothes from a tailor and if you are planning to roleplay just go for whatever you like anyway. For non-Jedi skills you could get whatever you wanted but best be able to survive the occasional agro or whatever with TKM, some fencer, some medic and maybe some scout and could get some be enhanced clothing to add additional defense as well. You wouldn't be very strong offensively, but you could at least not go down in one hit and be able to flee intact.
All I am trying to get at is that while the organic design of Jedi only makes them combat effective if they grind some xp...you can still make a character that is fun to do things with. True...there are no themeparks, quests or encounters designed to let a player make moral decisions and play as a Jedi, but there is nothing that would prevent a player from "playing" as a Jedi as much as they want to.
Page 1 of 10