Jedi Archive
Thread: The Avoid Incap Snare effect
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Kev0r
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:30 am
#1
Just to move the topic away from powers for a bit, give everyones' brains a rest 
Anyone else feel that the snare on Avoid Incap is a little too high? I use it fairly often in PVE and it's a pain when my target moves out of melee range and I waste precious seconds of AI time to catch up. Also, self rooting when it's capped (an absolutely ESSENTIAL move when fighting high CL enemies) seems over the top.
I don't propose moving snare from Avoid Incap, but change it's power. For the first AI, make movement the equivalent of the legshot snare from carbines. For the stacked root, change it to the current AI snare.
Thoughts?
MrDecipher
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:35 am
#2
I just dont liek that 2-5 seconds when i have 2 AIs on where i cannot move at all. If they stopped the snare effect from stacking i would not have any problem with it.
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:41 am
#4
I must admit I am confused by this.
I am not a MDef, but I have seen them in action. I have seen MDefs wailing on Krayts with AI on the go, standing toe-to-toe with them, shrugging off damage that would kill most people in 4-5 hits.
I have seen MDefs in PvP getting hammered by 10 people for over a minute (stacked AIs), all the while doing their own damage to everyone who is attacking them. Whilst AI in PvP is delaying the inevitable, it basically means no matter how many people are concentrating on you - you can fight back with impunity for minutes.
AI appears to me to be one of the most powerful skills in the game, and you want to be able to run around with it activated? I actually thought it rooted the user completely, I didn't realise it was just a snare.
I am not a MDef, but I have seen them in action. I have seen MDefs wailing on Krayts with AI on the go, standing toe-to-toe with them, shrugging off damage that would kill most people in 4-5 hits.
I have seen MDefs in PvP getting hammered by 10 people for over a minute (stacked AIs), all the while doing their own damage to everyone who is attacking them. Whilst AI in PvP is delaying the inevitable, it basically means no matter how many people are concentrating on you - you can fight back with impunity for minutes.
AI appears to me to be one of the most powerful skills in the game, and you want to be able to run around with it activated? I actually thought it rooted the user completely, I didn't realise it was just a snare.
Kev0r
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:41 am
#5
The way it is.....
...is useless in most situations. The snare is so strong that it's practically a root of it's own. If the enemy moves off, even if snared himself, the jedi cannot do anything except sit it out and wait to die. It's only possible, even with double mastery, to chain about 4 AI's before it wrecks your force bar.
Right now, I use AI in about 2 occasions in the entire game.
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:54 am
#6
Well, if its any small consolation I've used Regain Consciousness zero times (I have been incapped but I know the recovery penalty on it - 20 odd minutes of near zero force regen - is so severe as to make it worthless).
I've used Force Breach a few times, and managed to remove someones infusion buff (if I'm lucky) seconds before they've reapplied it again, for a fraction of the FC that the Breach took.
I've used Choke on someone who wasn't even a full MDef to see it tick for ~130 dmg. Didn't bother trying it again after that.
Oh, did I mention fighting against someone who just macro'd Force Feedback? I managed to remove it a couple of times with Breach but quite a few times thanks either to zip bars or the opponents ability to simply recast it instantly I've ended up choking myself for more dmg than I hit them for. Would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. FF renders the entire Powers skillset void.
That's just my Master skills. I could point out that Area Knockdown and Area Intimidate (can't choose the single ones anymore can I) have such a wide AoE that attempting to use them on anyone with any mobs who are within 2000m range just results in the entire planet aggro'ing me.
I'm moaning a bit here, but I hope you see the point. AI is a godly skill - snare or no snare, it allows you to tank things with impunity that would kill me in 4 hits. Any skill that allows you to stand for minutes after you should've been flat on the ground in no way needs any more buffage imo.
That's not to say I'm calling for a nerf on AI - far from it. I'd like to see other Mastery skills brought into some sort of balance with it. Choke is useless against Jedi, as is Breach pretty much. Regain Consciousness is utterly useless, unless you fancy not fighting for the next 30 minutes. Total Heal? Do I even need to comment on that?
Stasis is decent I suppose, but only in 1v1 PvP - and you're forfeiting a lot of defence to have it (unless you're MEnh/MDef, which means you'd never get any MDef down to a point where they'd need to use it anyway). Try using Statis in group PvP - I have, and it's a waste of time. Everyones natural instinct is to continue DoT'ing, slashing, shooting and generally fighting the person who is AI - they don't even realise that if they just stopped and let me Stasis them, that AI'd MDef would drop as soon as their AI wore off.
I'm done moaning now, but I hope you can see that of all the things broken in the Jedi professions at the moment - AI is wayyyy down the food chain in what desperately needs fixing.
I've used Force Breach a few times, and managed to remove someones infusion buff (if I'm lucky) seconds before they've reapplied it again, for a fraction of the FC that the Breach took.
I've used Choke on someone who wasn't even a full MDef to see it tick for ~130 dmg. Didn't bother trying it again after that.
Oh, did I mention fighting against someone who just macro'd Force Feedback? I managed to remove it a couple of times with Breach but quite a few times thanks either to zip bars or the opponents ability to simply recast it instantly I've ended up choking myself for more dmg than I hit them for. Would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. FF renders the entire Powers skillset void.
That's just my Master skills. I could point out that Area Knockdown and Area Intimidate (can't choose the single ones anymore can I) have such a wide AoE that attempting to use them on anyone with any mobs who are within 2000m range just results in the entire planet aggro'ing me.
I'm moaning a bit here, but I hope you see the point. AI is a godly skill - snare or no snare, it allows you to tank things with impunity that would kill me in 4 hits. Any skill that allows you to stand for minutes after you should've been flat on the ground in no way needs any more buffage imo.
That's not to say I'm calling for a nerf on AI - far from it. I'd like to see other Mastery skills brought into some sort of balance with it. Choke is useless against Jedi, as is Breach pretty much. Regain Consciousness is utterly useless, unless you fancy not fighting for the next 30 minutes. Total Heal? Do I even need to comment on that?
Stasis is decent I suppose, but only in 1v1 PvP - and you're forfeiting a lot of defence to have it (unless you're MEnh/MDef, which means you'd never get any MDef down to a point where they'd need to use it anyway). Try using Statis in group PvP - I have, and it's a waste of time. Everyones natural instinct is to continue DoT'ing, slashing, shooting and generally fighting the person who is AI - they don't even realise that if they just stopped and let me Stasis them, that AI'd MDef would drop as soon as their AI wore off.
I'm done moaning now, but I hope you can see that of all the things broken in the Jedi professions at the moment - AI is wayyyy down the food chain in what desperately needs fixing.
MrDecipher
Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:55 am
#7
If you have seen a defender on AI that has 15 people still hitting them then those 15 people are absolute morons wasting force action and or mind. The thing about snare in PvP is it is there so you can get out of range and just let the guy waste his force. however it is for sure one of the most powerfull skills in the game. I just don't like being stuck in place but its a give'n take type thing.
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:23 am
#8
I totally agree, but I've seen it happen so many times.
Only takes one person in PvP who is so consumed with whats going on and/or so focused on trying to take someone down, not realising they are AI'd, to ruin stasis. Most of the time I've tried to use it there has been at least 5 people constantly attacking. Maybe they're trying to prove a point or something...
Anyway, that's beside the point I guess
Only takes one person in PvP who is so consumed with whats going on and/or so focused on trying to take someone down, not realising they are AI'd, to ruin stasis. Most of the time I've tried to use it there has been at least 5 people constantly attacking. Maybe they're trying to prove a point or something...
Anyway, that's beside the point I guess
MrDecipher
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:33 am
#9
Durzel wrote:
I totally agree, but I've seen it happen so many times.
Only takes one person in PvP who is so consumed with whats going on and/or so focused on trying to take someone down, not realising they are AI'd, to ruin stasis. Most of the time I've tried to use it there has been at least 5 people constantly attacking. Maybe they're trying to prove a point or something...
Anyway, that's beside the point I guess
OMG one of my biggest pet peevs with this game is people who atatck someone on AI that is stasised. Do they not realize the stasis will basically kill the AI'd jedi if they just leave them be for a few seconds.
StarSiderShadrach
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:41 am
#11
I just wish I wouldn't get incapped with avoid incap on.
Several times yesterday I activated the skill and got incapped. Happened to me three times in a row.. and then I died with 25 seconds left on avoid incap.
Several times yesterday I activated the skill and got incapped. Happened to me three times in a row.. and then I died with 25 seconds left on avoid incap.
e3ApeXX
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:41 am
#12
Kev0r wrote:
Just to move the topic away from powers for a bit, give everyones' brains a rest
Anyone else feel that the snare on Avoid Incap is a little too high? I use it fairly often in PVE and it's a pain when my target moves out of melee range and I waste precious seconds of AI time to catch up. Also, self rooting when it's capped (an absolutely ESSENTIAL move when fighting high CL enemies) seems over the top.
I don't propose moving snare from Avoid Incap, but change it's power. For the first AI, make movement the equivalent of the legshot snare from carbines. For the stacked root, change it to the current AI snare.
Thoughts?
No, because with FR1 on the snare is completely useless.
IE: When AI snared with FR1, you are running at the same speed as if you were not snared.
Message Edited by e3ApeXX on 09-19-2005 08:44 AM
MrDecipher
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:41 am
#13
benz00 wrote:
remove snare then remove the abilty to stack it
Thats what I said back when they wanted to change it from the 750 FC to 1000FC with snare. That would fix all the issues like mdefenders farming high end loot from DJMs or standing infront of a base term on AI to stop countdown. Should just a 5-10 second delay between AIs would be fine.
Oh on a side note i got flamed hard for that suggestion tread lightly.
Message Edited by MrDecipher on 09-19-2005 11:42 AM
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