Jedi Archive
Thread: No confirmation on Cloak Nerf
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Daisame
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:37 am
#1
Everyone,
Until we get confirmation that cloaked characters will suffer a root or snare, I would encourage you all to remain calm.
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Helios_SOE wrote:
Here are some rules common to all types of buffs that remove you from sight (including Force Cloak):
1. Taking any offensive action reveals you instantly (currently the only exception is the Rifleman's ability Conceal Shot).
2. Interacting with some objects in the world instantly reveals you (could be switches, terminals, containers, etc)
3. Some commands cannot be executed and require you to reveal yourself before executing the command
4. All of these buffs can be "toggled off" at any time you wish to become view-able by others
5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)
6. You are afflicted with a movement snare when you are stealthy (rooted when just camouflaged)
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I certainly would agree that it is implied that Cloak will get at least a movement snare. However, there are two skill lines in the proposed changes toRanger. One is camouflage and the other is stealth. This last line could indicate that the Ranger is rooted with just using camo and snared when using camo combined with the stealth ability. I honestly believe that is what is meant.
See the notes under both the Camouflage and Steath skills. [http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Ranger%20Enhancements]
Now, that is not to say that the other things should make a cloaked user become visible, like interacting with a control panel or containers. This is my opinion however and I don't expect everyone to share it. I believe that using cloak to evade attack or scout the terrain ahead is not detrimental to other classes. The ability to sneak into a fortified location and loot an item or shut down a base's defenses and not be exposed, is a detriment to others who have to fight their way to the same spot only to find an empty container. There are many differing opinions on this however.
Just as a reminder, I would caution against jumping to conclusions before saying cloak is going to be nerfed. Until it is explicitly stated, I think we are only making assumptions.
Lets hope that at the very least, no snare or root is applied.
jultam
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:52 am
#2
Being a cloak user......I don't mind the snare (I wonder if mixing it with force run, will reduce the snare or might even break the cloak).
Daisame
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:55 am
#3
Currently the effects of snareare reduced by force run. FR2 and snare is about the same as normal movement.
To me it would be a big pain. Could I live with it? Maybe. But since I use it to evade, I would prefer to be able to run my butt out of the area while cloaked.
DianaPrince
Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:12 am
#6
jultam wrote:So with FR3 you are at FR2 when you are snared?
I would say it is more like between normal run and FR1...
No matter what FR you have, if you are snared, anyone's burst is going to catch and kill you, and if they have good burst food, they could be a crap player that didn't even realize they could root or snare and the game dynamics let them win... (Speaking from AI Snare experience in PVP.)
jultam
Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:38 am
#7
I wonder if you can still channel during cloak...I hope so then you will not be able to cloak for long.
HeadRoll
Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:41 am
#8
Daisame wrote:
Everyone,
Until we get confirmation that cloaked characters will suffer a root or snare, I would encourage you all to remain calm.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
You actually think Cloak will stay in its current form?, Stop fooling yourself...
HeadRoll
Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:43 am
#9
jultam wrote:
I wonder if you can still channel during cloak...I hope so then you will not be able to cloak for long.
Channel should not work while Cloak.
Cloak needs to be the all emergency Escape skill since there is nothing that can counter it.
Daisame
Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:50 pm
#10
HeadRoll wrote:
You actually think Cloak will stay in its current form?, Stop fooling yourself...
What I am saying is we should not jump to conclusions. We are certainly all very gun shy as the nerf bat has been swung with little mercy in SOE. Based on the description of the skills for Ranger and the wording of the text, I think people are reading into the statement and assuming that cloak will also get a snare added.
What was posted is supposedly the way the system works now. I am remaining hopeful that means that is how the engine will treat comouflage and stealth skills, not the cloak ability. Again, I think folks heared a bang and everyone is hitting the floor before anyone knows whether the bang was a car backfiring or a gunshot. 
Grunzer
Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:54 pm
#11
Daisame wrote:
HeadRoll wrote:
You actually think Cloak will stay in its current form?, Stop fooling yourself...
What I am saying is we should not jump to conclusions. We are certainly all very gun shy as the nerf bat has been swung with little mercy in SOE. Based on the description of the skills for Ranger and the wording of the text, I think people are reading into the statement and assuming that cloak will also get a snare added.
What was posted is supposedly the way the system works now. I am remaining hopeful that means that is how the engine will treat comouflage and stealth skills, not the cloak ability. Again, I think folks heared a bang and everyone is hitting the floor before anyone knows whether the bang was a car backfiring or a gunshot.
Blixtev added.
"Some of these rules were in place post-CU. However Helios found it better to rewrite the custom coding we did for cloak/coverdone in the CU and make it a much broader system. Post CU we did see many uses of cloak that were never intended when it was implemented. This seemed an opportune time to clean it up, and Helios did a bang up job of it.
When the systems team sat down to talk about Rangers we all agreed that the current implementaion was very much in the vein of the "fantasy Ranger". Tracking, foraging, harvesting creatures, etc. The only thing that was left out were bows and arrows. We all agreed that the closest Star Wars had to Ranger was the Antarian Ranger, which is more of the Stealthy, Demolitions, Spy-ish type of character. "
Go ahead and jump
Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-18-2005 01:55 PM
Daisame
Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:00 pm
#12
6. You are afflicted with a movement snare when you are stealthy (rooted when just camouflaged)
You will notice the wording "movement snare when you are stealth (rooted when just camouflaged)"
These are both Ranger skills. Yes, we could all read into this and say anythink that renders the character invisable will get at leasta snare affect, and if only camouflaged, a root.
This makes sense for a skill like abilty of steath and camo. The more something moves, the easier it is to spot (unless it moces faster than you can percieve, ie a bullet). Things that are camouflaged are at their most hidden when stationary. This is why Snipers crawl very slowly and deliberately to reduce signs of motion.
For a pseudo magic ability like Cloak, the suspension of disblief can be stretched a lot further.
I may be completey wrong and they make cloak snare the player. But before I jump to any "Everyone Look!!! The Sky is falling... the ski is falling!!!", I am going to wait for confirmation calmly. Getting all worked up by interpretation of what was said is pointless.
Grunzer
Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:01 pm
#13
Daisame wrote:
6. You are afflicted with a movement snare when you are stealthy (rooted when just camouflaged)
You will notice the wording "movement snare when you are stealth (rooted when just camouflaged)"
These are both Ranger skills. Yes, we could all read into this and say anythink that renders the character invisable will get at leasta snare affect, and if only camouflaged, a root.
This makes sense for a skill like abilty of steath and camo. The more something moves, the easier it is to spot (unless it moces faster than you can percieve, ie a bullet). Things that are camouflaged are at their most hidden when stationary. This is why Snipers crawl very slowly and deliberately to reduce signs of motion.
For a pseudo magic ability like Cloak, the suspension of disblief can be stretched a lot further.
I may be completey wrong and they make cloak snare the player. But before I jump to any "Everyone Look!!! The Sky is falling... the ski is falling!!!", I am going to wait for confirmation calmly. Getting all worked up by interpretation of what was said is pointless.
Post CU we did see many uses of cloak that were never intended when it was implemented. This seemed an opportune time to clean it up, and Helios did a bang up job of it.
It really doesn't get any clearer than this, but if you want to believe, then go ahead. However if you want to be more productive you might wish to push for vital fixes that are needed for cloak before these changes take effect. Assume that it is going to happen, ask for the bug fixes, impressupon the developer the NEED for the fixes to cloak before this happens, and it will lessen the blow to cloak users, and you won't havegone overboard in doing it.
Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-18-2005 02:05 PM
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