Jedi Archive

Message Edited by felipz on 10-09-2005 11:19 AM

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felipz wrote:

First lemme ask something because I don't read a lot about Star Wars yet. When exactly didYoda and Dooku beat Windu in a friendly duel ?

Just think for a bit, if Dooku was able to defeat Windu, and Yoda on episode one clearlywas faster than Dooku, and Yoda andPalpatine were pretty evenboth pretty quick Yoda had no chance of beating him, do you really think Windu could beatPalpatine ?

/discuss

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Fighting doesn't actually work like that. Having reached nidan, I realize that some fighters match up well against a certain skill set and others don't.

It's the same reason that they actually PLAY the games in professional sports, even when it's a "sure thing". You never know how one person/team will do when put up against another.

That being said, Windu clearly had Palpatine beaten. Yoda didn't fare as well, probably since Windu relied upon his connection to the dark side (Vadaad) while Yoda did not. It would appear that this technique worked better against Palpatine than the superior swordsman using another technique.

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Iawalein wrote:

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felipz wrote:

First lemme ask something because I don't read a lot about Star Wars yet. When exactly didYoda and Dooku beat Windu in a friendly duel ?

Just think for a bit, if Dooku was able to defeat Windu, and Yoda on episode one clearlywas faster than Dooku, and Yoda andPalpatine were pretty evenboth pretty quick Yoda had no chance of beating him, do you really think Windu could beatPalpatine ?

/discuss

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Fighting doesn't actually work like that. Having reached nidan, I realize that some fighters match up well against a certain skill set and others don't.

It's the same reason that they actually PLAY the games in professional sports, even when it's a "sure thing". You never know how one person/team will do when put up against another.

That being said, Windu clearly had Palpatine beaten. Yoda didn't fare as well, probably since Windu relied upon his connection to the dark side (Vadaad) while Yoda did not. It would appear that this technique worked better against Palpatine than the superior swordsman using another technique.

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You did pay attention right ? Palpatine throws his saber off the window then Anakin walks in, and about the sports thing it's more like how fast you are in Star Wars, Yoda had Dooku no problem there he was just faster than he, now Dooku actually beat Windu in a duel and keep in mind Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice.

If Palpatine really lost to Windu so how come he got Yoda running away from him ?

Message Edited by felipz on 10-07-2005 08:26 PM

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felipz wrote:

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Iawalein wrote:

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felipz wrote:

First lemme ask something because I don't read a lot about Star Wars yet. When exactly didYoda and Dooku beat Windu in a friendly duel ?

Just think for a bit, if Dooku was able to defeat Windu, and Yoda on episode one clearlywas faster than Dooku, and Yoda andPalpatine were pretty evenboth pretty quick Yoda had no chance of beating him, do you really think Windu could beatPalpatine ?

/discuss

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Fighting doesn't actually work like that. Having reached nidan, I realize that some fighters match up well against a certain skill set and others don't.

It's the same reason that they actually PLAY the games in professional sports, even when it's a "sure thing". You never know how one person/team will do when put up against another.

That being said, Windu clearly had Palpatine beaten. Yoda didn't fare as well, probably since Windu relied upon his connection to the dark side (Vadaad) while Yoda did not. It would appear that this technique worked better against Palpatine than the superior swordsman using another technique.

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You did pay attention right ? Palpatine throws his saber off the window then Anakin walks in, and about the sports thing it's more like how fast you are in Star Wars, Yoda had Dooku no problem there he was just faster than he, now Dooku actually beat Windu in a duel and keep in mind Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice.

If Palpatine really lost to Windu so how come he got Yoda running away from him ?

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Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 10-07-2005 08:30 PM

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felipz wrote:

You did pay attention right ? Palpatine throws his saber off the window then Anakin walks in, and about the sports thing it's more like how fast you are in Star Wars, Yoda had Dooku no problem there he was just faster than he, now Dooku actually beat Windu in a duel and keep in mind Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice.

If Palpatine really lost to Windu so how come he got Yoda running away from him ?

Also you see Palpatine is faking the whole thing he's saying, I'm weak ! Unlimited power ! He was clearly trying to get Anakin to the dark side. Once Anakin cuts windu's arm off Palpatine fries him with lightning.

Message Edited by felipz on 10-07-2005 08:26 PM

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Message Edited by TXwarrior on 10-07-2005 07:43 PM

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felipz wrote:

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Iawalein wrote:

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felipz wrote:

First lemme ask something because I don't read a lot about Star Wars yet. When exactly didYoda and Dooku beat Windu in a friendly duel ?

Just think for a bit, if Dooku was able to defeat Windu, and Yoda on episode one clearlywas faster than Dooku, and Yoda andPalpatine were pretty evenboth pretty quick Yoda had no chance of beating him, do you really think Windu could beatPalpatine ?

/discuss

---

Fighting doesn't actually work like that. Having reached nidan, I realize that some fighters match up well against a certain skill set and others don't.

It's the same reason that they actually PLAY the games in professional sports, even when it's a "sure thing". You never know how one person/team will do when put up against another.

That being said, Windu clearly had Palpatine beaten. Yoda didn't fare as well, probably since Windu relied upon his connection to the dark side (Vadaad) while Yoda did not. It would appear that this technique worked better against Palpatine than the superior swordsman using another technique.

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You did pay attention right ? Palpatine throws his saber off the window then Anakin walks in, and about the sports thing it's more like how fast you are in Star Wars, Yoda had Dooku no problem there he was just faster than he, now Dooku actually beat Windu in a duel and keep in mind Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice.

If Palpatine really lost to Windu so how come he got Yoda running away from him ?

Also you see Palpatine is faking the whole thing he's saying, I'm weak ! Unlimited power ! He was clearly trying to get Anakin to the dark side. Once Anakin cuts windu's arm off Palpatine fries him with lightning.

Message Edited by felipz on 10-07-2005 08:26 PM

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Sorry, but having read the novel, I saw a different version of that scene than you did. The novel made it out to be a near draw due to exhaustion by both parties, Windu asks Anakin for help but has the upper hand on Palpatine before Anakin intercedes on Palpatine's behalf.

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TXwarrior wrote:

What tha?!

Windu knocked the Saber out of his hand. Windu bet Palp. The only thing that got Windu was his new found trust in Anakin. He told Anakin "ifI findyour claim about Palpto betrue you will have my trust."

At the point where he KNOCKS the saber out of Palp's hand he trusted Anakinand Anakin betrayed him and all the Jedi.

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I don't know about you but, if Yoda couldn't beat Palpatine I don't think Windu could, after all didn't Dooku (Palpatine's apprentice)and Yoda beat him in a duel ?

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

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felipz wrote:

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Iawalein wrote:

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felipz wrote:

First lemme ask something because I don't read a lot about Star Wars yet. When exactly didYoda and Dooku beat Windu in a friendly duel ?

Just think for a bit, if Dooku was able to defeat Windu, and Yoda on episode one clearlywas faster than Dooku, and Yoda andPalpatine were pretty evenboth pretty quick Yoda had no chance of beating him, do you really think Windu could beatPalpatine ?

/discuss

---

Fighting doesn't actually work like that. Having reached nidan, I realize that some fighters match up well against a certain skill set and others don't.

It's the same reason that they actually PLAY the games in professional sports, even when it's a "sure thing". You never know how one person/team will do when put up against another.

That being said, Windu clearly had Palpatine beaten. Yoda didn't fare as well, probably since Windu relied upon his connection to the dark side (Vadaad) while Yoda did not. It would appear that this technique worked better against Palpatine than the superior swordsman using another technique.

---

You did pay attention right ? Palpatine throws his saber off the window then Anakin walks in, and about the sports thing it's more like how fast you are in Star Wars, Yoda had Dooku no problem there he was just faster than he, now Dooku actually beat Windu in a duel and keep in mind Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice.

If Palpatine really lost to Windu so how come he got Yoda running away from him ?

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Palpatine didnt "beat" Yoda. If you actualy watched, you would have seen that their fight was really pretty evenly matched. Neither really appeared more powerful than the other, and at the end of the fight Palpatine actualy looked like he was afraid(As yoda was absorbing his force lighting). The following explosion just happend to make Yoda fall and Palpatine not fall. Palpatine could have fallen just as easily, but seeing as how Yoda did, and it probably hurt him, he realized that even though he might could resist the emperor, his reinforcments would show up shortly, then it wouldnt be a stalemate.

He didnt run because he was beaten, he ran because there was a chance he would be beaten, the survival of the Jedi order was his main concern, as he didnt know if Obi-Wan would succeed or not.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 10-07-2005 08:30 PM

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I'd agree with this. Yoda states, "failed I have" rather than "beat I was". LOL

By the way, martial arts are not sport when handled correctly. I still stand by the statement that the outcome is not ONLY related to speed and technique, but related also to how one technique fares against another.

Almost EVERY technique has a strength and at least one weakness. Knowing how to counter a move is the key to survival. In the end, it's a lot like chess...Even the lowly pawn can capture a queen if used correctly. It requires using one's strength against another's weakness.

As Sun Tzu admonished, go not against another's strength but against his weakness. Perhaps Windu was a better match against Palpatine's weakness than was Yoda.

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Iawalein wrote:

Sorry, but having read the novel, I saw a different version of that scene than you did. The novel made it out to be a near draw due to exhaustion by both parties, Windu asks Anakin for help but has the upper hand on Palpatine before Anakin intercedes on Palpatine's behalf.

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Well on the movie looks clear to me, when Palpatine "throws" his saber off the window then Anakin walks in and he gets the impression that Windu is trying to murder him, killing an unarmed person or something like that. I do have the book but I haven't read yet, but well looks that way in the movies to me though.

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felipz wrote:

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TXwarrior wrote:

What tha?!

Windu knocked the Saber out of his hand. Windu bet Palp. The only thing that got Windu was his new found trust in Anakin. He told Anakin "ifI findyour claim about Palpto betrue you will have my trust."

At the point where he KNOCKS the saber out of Palp's hand he trusted Anakinand Anakin betrayed him and all the Jedi.

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I don't know about you but, if Yoda couldn't beat Palpatine I don't think Windu could, after all didn't Dooku (Palpatine's apprentice)and Yoda beat him in a duel ?

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Linear, your thinking is! LOL

Fighting cannot be seen purely in this manner. Each fighter will have their strengths and their weaknesses. The opponent that can best address those weaknesses has the best chance of emerging victorious.

Ability is not all, and often strategy will win the day.

Read the ep. III novelisation for more about the technique of Vadaad if you haven't already. It involves using the dark side, often meaning that the user is consumed in the process (controlled by Vapaad rather than controlling it).

Yoda admits that the Sith had evolved (adding new skills) while the Jedi had stagnated (treated the battle against the Sith as if it would always remain the same). Yoda wasn't exactly a stranger to the Dark Side, but Mace had a much better relationship to it.

I'd say that this would allow Mace to better resist Palpatine's abilites, leading to less of a weakness. This doesn't make Mace the better swordsman, and wouldn't help Mace in a fight against Yoda, but could have turned the battle in this instance.

Message Edited by Iawalein on 10-07-2005 05:52 PM

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Iawalein wrote:

Linear, your thinking is! LOL

Fighting cannot be seen purely in this manner. Each fighter will have their strengths and their weaknesses. The opponent that can best address those weaknesses has the best chance of emerging victorious.

Ability is not all, and often strategy will win the day.

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Yes and Palpatine used strategy to kill Windu, or maybe he just used Windu to get Anakin to the dark side, we don't really know. But I don't think Windu could beat Palpatine at all.

Message Edited by felipz on 10-07-2005 08:52 PM

You might disagree, but the novel and the databank concur: windu overpowered palpatine. take that how you will, but I agree with both of them.