Jedi Archive

Thread: Defenders will benefit most from cloak after the nerf

Drazharr
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:52 am
#1

If cloak is gonna snare you like Avoid Incap does, then the folks who are gonna benefit the most from this nerf are Defenders who dabble in cloak.


Why? Because they can take a lot more damage than pure Enhancers and pure Powers folks can and they use less force while doing it.


This is going to be the biggest unintended consequence of this ill-conceived nerf.


Bacc, can this dumb nerf possibly be stopped?



"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
Gohma_Manovich
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:08 am
#2

but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?



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Drazharr
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:23 am
#3






Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






OK, here's the deal:


If you are a MLS/Defender something/Healer something/Cloaker, you can still sneak up to someone and blast them. This nerf doesn't really change that.


The difference is that when a true Master Powers or Master Enhancer or someone else does that after this cloak nerf, they are gonna die. As it stands now, the Master Powers or Enhancer can cloak and force run out of Dodge if they get in trouble. After the nerf, they won't be able to get away.


A good MLS/Defender/Healer/Cloaker doesn't have to get away. They can take tons of damage that Powers and Enhancer cannot.


Cloak must not have a snare. It's just that simple. If it gets one, it's useless.





"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
Ashuger
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:34 am
#4

A snare does not benefit anyone, no matter how you look at it. Rephrase that.




\\\\\wXue-Erw/////


wDark Jediw


} If so powerful you are, why leave?}




Mengster_dk wrote:


Text Jedi to 36723 (FORCE)
Drazharr
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:36 am
#5






Ashuger wrote:

A snare does not benefit anyone, no matter how you look at it. Rephrase that.





I wholeheartedly agree! This snare to AI was stupid, too, but it's even worse on cloak for Powers and Enhancer people - they generally don't have the big defenses Defenders do.


Defenders should still be able to use cloak effectively after the cloak nerf, though.



"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
Gohma_Manovich
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:43 am
#6

ahh now i see what your saying, the snare to both AI and cloak was completely pointles especialy seeing to there both extremely high FC (AI especialy 1k for 30seconds with a snare, not really a great idea in pvp and most pve)



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_Saevio_
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:45 am
#7






Drazharr wrote:





Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






OK, here's the deal:


If you are a MLS/Defender something/Healer something/Cloaker, you can still sneak up to someone and blast them. This nerf doesn't really change that.


The difference is that when a true Master Powers or Master Enhancer or someone else does that after this cloak nerf, they are gonna die. As it stands now, the Master Powers or Enhancer can cloak and force run out of Dodge if they get in trouble. After the nerf, they won't be able to get away.


A good MLS/Defender/Healer/Cloaker doesn't have to get away. They can take tons of damage that Powers and Enhancer cannot.


Cloak must not have a snare. It's just that simple. If it gets one, it's useless.






so i'm guessing you've played the test center version of these new invisibility rules? oh wait... you haven't... just more speculation, give it a rest until you actually know what the end result is...




Saevio Metatron

Bladeborn
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Drop Off All Winnings @ Trade-In Vendor: /waypoint -5738 5313 (Lok)

Oerivo
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:45 am
#8






Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.


The defenses come in when you have a tepmlate such as mine that is heavily enhancer based, and 50% if not MORE of your defense IS to cloak when you cannot handle the heat. It is my trade off for ZERO ranged and melee defense (barring skill mods) and armor that costs me force that a defender gets at no cost (barring skill points invested). If i could have the template with all the defenses and the enhancer skills I wanted, then I would not need cloak as a defensive measure, I could just stay and fight.


I guess i can just change my "tactics", i.e. template as so many are fond of saying. Putting a snare on cloak will likely force me to do both.






Drazharr
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:47 am
#9






_Saevio_ wrote:





Drazharr wrote:





Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






OK, here's the deal:


If you are a MLS/Defender something/Healer something/Cloaker, you can still sneak up to someone and blast them. This nerf doesn't really change that.


The difference is that when a true Master Powers or Master Enhancer or someone else does that after this cloak nerf, they are gonna die. As it stands now, the Master Powers or Enhancer can cloak and force run out of Dodge if they get in trouble. After the nerf, they won't be able to get away.


A good MLS/Defender/Healer/Cloaker doesn't have to get away. They can take tons of damage that Powers and Enhancer cannot.


Cloak must not have a snare. It's just that simple. If it gets one, it's useless.






so i'm guessing you've played the test center version of these new invisibility rules? oh wait... you haven't... just more speculation, give it a rest until you actually know what the end result is...







Haven't been reading Bac and Helios' latest comments, eh? They say the cloak snare will be like the AI snare.


You bet I'll be watching the test center reports to see if they rescind this crazy nerf. But I'm not speculating, I'm basing my opinions on facts.





"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
_Saevio_
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:49 am
#10






Oerivo wrote:





Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.


The defenses come in when you have a tepmlate such as mine that is heavily enhancer based, and 50% if not MORE of your defense IS to cloak when you cannot handle the heat. It is my trade off for ZERO ranged and melee defense (barring skill mods) and armor that costs me force that a defender gets at no cost (barring skill points invested). If i could have the template with all the defenses and the enhancer skills I wanted, then I would not need cloak as a defensive measure, I could just stay and fight.


I guess i can just change my "tactics", i.e. template as so many are fond of saying. Putting a snare on cloak will likely force me to do both.







force cloak was never meant to be a "get away" skill, that's what force run is for... force cloak was meant to be a "sneak up and pounce" skill to initiate a fight, not avoid it.... abuse (using skill as unintended) = change (aka nerf).



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_Saevio_
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:53 am
#11






Drazharr wrote:





_Saevio_ wrote:





Drazharr wrote:





Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






OK, here's the deal:


If you are a MLS/Defender something/Healer something/Cloaker, you can still sneak up to someone and blast them. This nerf doesn't really change that.


The difference is that when a true Master Powers or Master Enhancer or someone else does that after this cloak nerf, they are gonna die. As it stands now, the Master Powers or Enhancer can cloak and force run out of Dodge if they get in trouble. After the nerf, they won't be able to get away.


A good MLS/Defender/Healer/Cloaker doesn't have to get away. They can take tons of damage that Powers and Enhancer cannot.


Cloak must not have a snare. It's just that simple. If it gets one, it's useless.






so i'm guessing you've played the test center version of these new invisibility rules? oh wait... you haven't... just more speculation, give it a rest until you actually know what the end result is...







Haven't been reading Bac and Helios' latest comments, eh? They say the cloak snare will be like the AI snare.


You bet I'll be watching the test center reports to see if they rescind this crazy nerf. But I'm not speculating, I'm basing my opinions on facts.







actually i just read them after i posted that... and in any case, he says it was never intended to be a "get away" skill, so snare shouldn't matter if it's being used as intended



Saevio Metatron

Bladeborn
ugnnnn/\]nngWXgggggggggggggggggggggggggg)
Peace is a lie...


Drop Off All Winnings @ Trade-In Vendor: /waypoint -5738 5313 (Lok)

Drazharr
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:53 am
#12






_Saevio_ wrote:





Oerivo wrote:





Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?






Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.


The defenses come in when you have a tepmlate such as mine that is heavily enhancer based, and 50% if not MORE of your defense IS to cloak when you cannot handle the heat. It is my trade off for ZERO ranged and melee defense (barring skill mods) and armor that costs me force that a defender gets at no cost (barring skill points invested). If i could have the template with all the defenses and the enhancer skills I wanted, then I would not need cloak as a defensive measure, I could just stay and fight.


I guess i can just change my "tactics", i.e. template as so many are fond of saying. Putting a snare on cloak will likely force me to do both.







force cloak was never meant to be a "get away" skill, that's what force run is for... force cloak was meant to be a "sneak up and pounce" skill to initiate a fight, not avoid it.... abuse (using skill as unintended) = change (aka nerf).





What's going to be unfair about this nerf, if it goes live, is that it's not going to be able to be used by the classes it was intended for - Powers & Enhancers. They won't have enough defense to be able to use it.


But a MLS/Defender, hey, they can still dabble and get cloak and use it just fine. They can de-cloak and attack because they can take the punishment. Powers and Enhancers can't take the punishment, they can't take the damage and now, they can't get away.


This nerf is pure insanity.





"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
Oerivo
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:56 am
#13






_Saevio_ wrote:


force cloak was never meant to be a "get away" skill, that's what force run is for... force cloak was meant to be a "sneak up and pounce" skill to initiate a fight, not avoid it.... abuse (using skill as unintended) = change (aka nerf).







So I cannot use Force Run for offense either I suppose, without it being abuse either. Report me becuae I primarily use force run FOR offense because of the terrain negotiation and ability to position myself on the battlefiled where it advantages me the most.


Calling use of cloak as an escape and evade tool abuse is like saying you cannot defend yourself with knockdown, root, snare, paralyze, statis, burst run or any other skill that affords you more time to conduct your offensive actions without it being abuse. All of these allow you to help control the flow of the battle and nothing about them should be dictated as offensive or defensive.


I suppose you should get a snare when you paralyze someone or KD them too. Those are offensive techniques only and we should prevent their abuse!

Message Edited by Oerivo on 09-19-2005 07:58 PM




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