Jedi Archive
Thread: Defenders will benefit most from cloak after the nerf
whether they intended to doesnt matter really...get away wasthe practical use of cloak...and using it as an alpha strike will be a joke...without defenses now a MPowers toon will be severly disadvantaged...
_Saevio_ wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
_Saevio_ wrote:
so i'm guessing you've played the test center version of these new invisibility rules? oh wait... you haven't... just more speculation, give it a rest until you actually know what the end result is...
Drazharr wrote:
Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?
OK, here's the deal:
If you are a MLS/Defender something/Healer something/Cloaker, you can still sneak up to someone and blast them. This nerf doesn't really change that.
The difference is that when a true Master Powers or Master Enhancer or someone else does that after this cloak nerf, they are gonna die. As it stands now, the Master Powers or Enhancer can cloak and force run out of Dodge if they get in trouble. After the nerf, they won't be able to get away.
A good MLS/Defender/Healer/Cloaker doesn't have to get away. They can take tons of damage that Powers and Enhancer cannot.
Cloak must not have a snare. It's just that simple. If it gets one, it's useless.
Haven't been reading Bac and Helios' latest comments, eh? They say the cloak snare will be like the AI snare.
You bet I'll be watching the test center reports to see if they rescind this crazy nerf. But I'm not speculating, I'm basing my opinions on facts.
actually i just read them after i posted that... and in any case, he says it was never intended to be a "get away" skill, so snare shouldn't matter if it's being used as intended
BetrayedByDevs wrote:
I do not understand why cloak is not considered an escape tool as well. Also, once you cloak the BH can not follow you so your escape is just slower with the snare right?
You cannot "cloud the mind" of a seeker dorid (its a droid dude) for the same reason you cannot hide from turrets and IMHO area attacks (area weapons cannot have their minds clouded either), and with the /follow exploit you are even more hosed.
Message Edited by Oerivo on 09-19-2005 08:09 PM
Oerivo wrote:
Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.
HUH>?, If you are invisible... thus undamageable... you did get away... Wow Ebay bought Jedi are not very bright, are they?
HeadRoll wrote:
Oerivo wrote:
Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.
HUH>?, If you are invisible... thus undamageable... you did get away... Wow Ebay bought Jedi are not very bright, are they?
see above 2 posts. (How many MLS, ENH 3404, Healer 4000, Powers 0420 ebay jedi do you know, I did not attack you personally did i?)
Message Edited by Oerivo on 09-19-2005 08:16 PM
_Saevio_ wrote:
Oerivo wrote:
Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?
Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.
The defenses come in when you have a tepmlate such as mine that is heavily enhancer based, and 50% if not MORE of your defense IS to cloak when you cannot handle the heat. It is my trade off for ZERO ranged and melee defense (barring skill mods) and armor that costs me force that a defender gets at no cost (barring skill points invested). If i could have the template with all the defenses and the enhancer skills I wanted, then I would not need cloak as a defensive measure, I could just stay and fight.
I guess i can just change my "tactics", i.e. template as so many are fond of saying. Putting a snare on cloak will likely force me to do both.
force cloak was never meant to be a "get away" skill, that's what force run is for... force cloak was meant to be a "sneak up and pounce" skill to initiate a fight, not avoid it.... abuse (using skill as unintended) = change (aka nerf).
Message Edited by _Saevio_ on 09-19-2005 11:23 AM
There are alot of things in this game that you were never meant to be able to do, and doing some of them is abuse, some is exloiting, others is just sensible use of the options avaiable to you.
Using cloak to turn off base timers is ABUSE.
Using cloak to lure agro away from fellow players is an EXPLOIT.
Using cloak to escape, evade and return to combat if desired is just sensible use of the skill.
You acused me of abuse.
Message Edited by Oerivo on 09-19-2005 08:30 PM
Message Edited by Oerivo on 09-19-2005 08:38 PM
Oerivo wrote:
Gohma_Manovich wrote:
but how does the snare when you are in an unattackable state make defences become involved?
Part of the getting away aspect of the cloaker is GETTING AWAY. You cannot get away under a snare when a BH can stay right on top of you and wait for your force to be depleted.
The defenses come in when you have a tepmlate such as mine that is heavily enhancer based, and 50% if not MORE of your defense IS to cloak when you cannot handle the heat. It is my trade off for ZERO ranged and melee defense (barring skill mods) and armor that costs me force that a defender gets at no cost (barring skill points invested). If i could have the template with all the defenses and the enhancer skills I wanted, then I would not need cloak as a defensive measure, I could just stay and fight.
I guess i can just change my "tactics", i.e. template as so many are fond of saying. Putting a snare on cloak will likely force me to do both.
TajJunak wrote:
Make droids and turrets immune to cloak and it wiil stop all the exploits(running from a BH isnt an exploit!)
Turrets are supposed to attack cloaked players. You obviously don't know half peoples issues with cloak if you think its because they run from BHers.
MrDecipher wrote:
Look you have skilla defender does not. This change does not effect defenders at all. You chose a template based on crowd control and your comlaining about defences. Get real and stop whinning because now when you cloak with force run on you will not run at full speed.
MrDecipher wrote:
TajJunak wrote:
Make droids and turrets immune to cloak and it wiil stop all the exploits(running from a BH isnt an exploit!)
Turrets are supposed to attack cloaked players. You obviously don't know half peoples issues with cloak if you think its because they run from BHers.
Yes, agree, cloak should not be immune to anything without a live brain.
So a powers jedi is unable to use cloak as a first strike skill your saying. Or are you saying defender jedi never used cloak as an escape method. I see it helping powers more because they will be able to get a root off then a few ranged attacks in before a melee type player can attack back.
Oerivo wrote:
MrDecipher wrote:
Look you have skilla defender does not. This change does not effect defenders at all. You chose a template based on crowd control and your comlaining about defences. Get real and stop whinning because now when you cloak with force run on you will not run at full speed.
Except that a defender actually has the defenses to use cloak as a first strike capability. And in mine and the posts author's opinion, having cloak will be of the MOST benefit to a defender and least benefit to those who took it as a defensive measure. It will achieve what the devs want if they want it to be first strike skill as its value for making up for lower defenses is seriously diminished.