Jedi Archive
Thread: XP should have remained nerfed
Page 1 of 6
Sandsifter
Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:27 pm
#1
After talking to several new players in our guild, I realized its a huge mistake for SOE to repeal the xp nerf. Players once again have found ways around SOE's attempts to slow things down.
Players are now mastering and reaching level 80 a week after they bought the game...totally ridiculous. I many times have been asked obvious newbie questions which confused me because the player was level 80. Im thinking why is a vet lvl 80 asking me how to type in a waypoint or name a droid or what does food do ??? The answer is because these guys are similiar to buying an account ready-made off ebay. they have all the power of a veteran player but none of the knowledge.
And of course this also translates into faster jedi. Soon I see 75% of population being jedi (i believe its already 50% now). With so many jedi around, this creates even more issues with balance. Jedi being the alpha male class of this mmorpg MUST be rare. Otherwise balance issues creep up. You cant allow a majority of players to be more powerful than the rest. This is why every other mmorpg out there really doesnt have an alpha class. In the end, everyone wants it and strives for nothing else.
And SOE has nobody to blame but themselves and maybe Lucas. They saw the money WoW made and decided to focus their target market to appeal the WoW kiddies. And no offense but that generation is the entitlement crowd who feel they are owed a jedi account with the flawless pearls to go with it. They made the game dumbed down and easier to appeal to that market. Therefore they reap what they sow. Now we have a majority of immature players hel bent on getting jedi. And this is creating a snowball effect. The few remaining non-jedi vets are quitting enmass disgusted with these new players.
And with these kids being a majority, SOE had to bow down to them and give up the much needed xp nerf. What did they expect after several weeks of double xp, free grind on ryatt trail, and no visibility for grouping.
Most folks look at the hologrind of december 03 as the start of the end for this game. I disagree, the xp nerf is whats going to finish the game. You simply cant allow an alpha class to be common for the sake of balance. And making the game so easy only means everyone gets bored and quits that much faster. mmorpgs are meant to be a long-term solution to gamers who want more than a game they beat in 3 days. For some reason, that basic rule in mmorpgs has been lost with this fast-food generation and SOE has bent over to them.
Cyborg-Shoryuken
Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:42 pm
#2
You are a bold man for pointing out what most people already know is the obvious truth. I salute you for willingly sacrificing yourself to the flames that shall follow for the sake of making a very good, and true point.
/salute
/flame on
Eskie
Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:02 pm
#3
Just a few comments:
- Grinding does not equal content. Why should people be forced to grind?
- If you have the choice of losing 25k accounts (= $ 375k / month) while stretching advancement time by a factor of 8 or keep everything as it is, why is it a better choice to lose players?
- If a lvl 80 does not know a lot about the game: So what? Does it harm your gameplay? No.
- And to put this into perspective: Average xp in a group today is about the same xp as solo pre-CU. So no nerf needed.
- Grinding does not equal content. Why should people be forced to grind?
- If you have the choice of losing 25k accounts (= $ 375k / month) while stretching advancement time by a factor of 8 or keep everything as it is, why is it a better choice to lose players?
- If a lvl 80 does not know a lot about the game: So what? Does it harm your gameplay? No.
- And to put this into perspective: Average xp in a group today is about the same xp as solo pre-CU. So no nerf needed.
Bacon00
Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:08 pm
#6
Mmmm, no, I'm a vet and I whined quite a bit with the XP nerf... solo XP pre-CU was the same as group XP now, as somebody said, and they were going to nerf both into oblivion. I cancelled my account - too much grinding. Very glad they brought it back.
EHarley
Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:21 pm
#7
same ol same ol, "SOE didn't nerf something, and now there are millions of jedi, I feel soo same as everyone else, OHS NOH Im not elite!!"
I still cannot understand why some ppl even care if other players are jedi. It's their game since they put in the work they get jedi, sorry man since everyone wants to be jedi everyone is gonna work for jedi, which means if your jedi your not special. (As if you were anyway)
I still cannot understand why some ppl even care if other players are jedi. It's their game since they put in the work they get jedi, sorry man since everyone wants to be jedi everyone is gonna work for jedi, which means if your jedi your not special. (As if you were anyway)
Message Edited by EHarley on 09-25-2005 05:21 PM
pussycat
Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:52 pm
#8
Star Wars stuck a chord in so many people when it first came out because of its fantastic elements... and with the exception of Jedi, there's nothing in the SW movies AFAIR that couldn't be done by the average human, if he/she lived in that setting and had that technology available.
The only exception, of course, is Jedi, because it involves super-human elements. Thus it has had a similar appeal as superheroes, etc.
So in my opinion, for many of us the appeal is not to be "uber" and "pwn" other players, but rather to engage in some fun roleplaying that, however briefly, allows us to trascend the limitations of the human race... to be better than an average human (and ideally, to put those powers to good use)
So yeah, I *would* like to play a character in a MMORPG that had powers which trascend what humans are capable off... what's wrong with that? Everybody has at some point or another wished to trascend their human condition. The Greeks and Romans had Gods, 20th century kids had superheroes and, after 1977, Jedi, to look up to. It's the ultimate wish-fullfilment fantasy, tbh.
So I don't blame other players for wanting to have a toon with super-human strength/speed/powers. It's a basic part of human nature, as far as I'm concerned. It only becomes a negative if the player looks at it in terms of wanting to be a "uber" toon and "pwn" everybody else (it's one thing to wipe out all the NPCs you come across, but you can't be the same way about player characters because invariably many of them will resent it).
The only exception, of course, is Jedi, because it involves super-human elements. Thus it has had a similar appeal as superheroes, etc.
So in my opinion, for many of us the appeal is not to be "uber" and "pwn" other players, but rather to engage in some fun roleplaying that, however briefly, allows us to trascend the limitations of the human race... to be better than an average human (and ideally, to put those powers to good use)
So yeah, I *would* like to play a character in a MMORPG that had powers which trascend what humans are capable off... what's wrong with that? Everybody has at some point or another wished to trascend their human condition. The Greeks and Romans had Gods, 20th century kids had superheroes and, after 1977, Jedi, to look up to. It's the ultimate wish-fullfilment fantasy, tbh.
So I don't blame other players for wanting to have a toon with super-human strength/speed/powers. It's a basic part of human nature, as far as I'm concerned. It only becomes a negative if the player looks at it in terms of wanting to be a "uber" toon and "pwn" everybody else (it's one thing to wipe out all the NPCs you come across, but you can't be the same way about player characters because invariably many of them will resent it).
Sandsifter
Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:07 pm
#9
same ol same ol, "SOE didn't nerf something, and now there are millions of jedi, I feel soo same as everyone else, OHS NOH Im not elite!!"
I still cannot understand why some ppl even care if other players are jedi. It's their game since they put in the work they get jedi, sorry man since everyone wants to be jedi everyone is gonna work for jedi, which means if your jedi your not special. (As if you were anyway)
I still cannot understand why some ppl even care if other players are jedi. It's their game since they put in the work they get jedi, sorry man since everyone wants to be jedi everyone is gonna work for jedi, which means if your jedi your not special. (As if you were anyway)
Reread my post, jedi are an alpha class and MUST be rare. If devs want them to be a common class then they must nerf them to balance the game. Its okay to have a few unbeatable players running around (all mmorpgs have them) but you cant have balance with so many.
Dont believe me ? Take a look at the war, remember the war ? Yes the war...the one we're supposed to fighting in ? Its been dead since jedi became common. Jedi threw off the balance of the war and so everyone stopped doing AH/Bestine raids.
And even if someone isnt grinding to jedi, the pace is way too quick for normal grinding. Even Blizzard knew not to make their game too easy. It takes the average gamer over there 4-6 weeks to hit level 60. Here Ive watched guildies go from level 10 to 60 in one day on dantooine.
For those who bought the game at launch and were in beta or read the forums back when devs participated, they'll recall jedi was rarely mentioned. It was understood by all that it wasnt really a goal to focus on because it wasnt something the majority would ever achieve. With that knowledge we set our sites on ranger, squad leader, pistoleer, etc Everyone knew going in that jedi was something a few lucky peeps would ever get. Boy that sure has long been forgotten.
And thats mainly why lotta vets have quit in disgust. They never intended to go jedi or ever expected them to be common and take over the war. And publish after publish went to jedi sealed the deal, especially for smugglers who waited to smuggle like the box advertised.
RebelArchAngel
Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:12 pm
#10
no matter how many jedi there r, there is always a normal character for it (alt) so jedi can never outnumber the normal proffessions
Sandsifter wrote:
After talking to several new players in our guild, I realized its a huge mistake for SOE to repeal the xp nerf. Players once again have found ways around SOE's attempts to slow things down.
Players are now mastering and reaching level 80 a week after they bought the game...totally ridiculous. I many times have been asked obvious newbie questions which confused me because the player was level 80. Im thinking why is a vet lvl 80 asking me how to type in a waypoint or name a droid or what does food do ??? The answer is because these guys are similiar to buying an account ready-made off ebay. they have all the power of a veteran player but none of the knowledge.
And of course this also translates into faster jedi. Soon I see 75% of population being jedi (i believe its already 50% now). With so many jedi around, this creates even more issues with balance. Jedi being the alpha male class of this mmorpg MUST be rare. Otherwise balance issues creep up. You cant allow a majority of players to be more powerful than the rest. This is why every other mmorpg out there really doesnt have an alpha class. In the end, everyone wants it and strives for nothing else.
And SOE has nobody to blame but themselves and maybe Lucas. They saw the money WoW made and decided to focus their target market to appeal the WoW kiddies. And no offense but that generation is the entitlement crowd who feel they are owed a jedi account with the flawless pearls to go with it. They made the game dumbed down and easier to appeal to that market. Therefore they reap what they sow. Now we have a majority of immature players hel bent on getting jedi. And this is creating a snowball effect. The few remaining non-jedi vets are quitting enmass disgusted with these new players.
And with these kids being a majority, SOE had to bow down to them and give up the much needed xp nerf. What did they expect after several weeks of double xp, free grind on ryatt trail, and no visibility for grouping.
Most folks look at the hologrind of december 03 as the start of the end for this game. I disagree, the xp nerf is whats going to finish the game. You simply cant allow an alpha class to be common for the sake of balance. And making the game so easy only means everyone gets bored and quits that much faster. mmorpgs are meant to be a long-term solution to gamers who want more than a game they beat in 3 days. For some reason, that basic rule in mmorpgs has been lost with this fast-food generation and SOE has bent over to them.
Willvas
Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:28 pm
#11
Sandsifter wrote:
same ol same ol, "SOE didn't nerf something, and now there are millions of jedi, I feel soo same as everyone else, OHS NOH Im not elite!!"
I still cannot understand why some ppl even care if other players are jedi. It's their game since they put in the work they get jedi, sorry man since everyone wants to be jedi everyone is gonna work for jedi, which means if your jedi your not special. (As if you were anyway)
Reread my post, jedi are an alpha class and MUST be rare. If devs want them to be a common class then they must nerf them to balance the game. Its okay to have a few unbeatable players running around (all mmorpgs have them) but you cant have balance with so many.
Dont believe me ? Take a look at the war, remember the war ? Yes the war...the one we're supposed to fighting in ? Its been dead since jedi became common. Jedi threw off the balance of the war and so everyone stopped doing AH/Bestine raids.
oh and those raids stopped when cities were introduced not jedi
And even if someone isnt grinding to jedi, the pace is way too quick for normal grinding. Even Blizzard knew not to make their game too easy. It takes the average gamer over there 4-6 weeks to hit level 60. Here Ive watched guildies go from level 10 to 60 in one day on dantooine.
For those who bought the game at launch and were in beta or read the forums back when devs participated, they'll recall jedi was rarely mentioned. It was understood by all that it wasnt really a goal to focus on because it wasnt something the majority would ever achieve. With that knowledge we set our sites on ranger, squad leader, pistoleer, etc Everyone knew going in that jedi was something a few lucky peeps would ever get. Boy that sure has long been forgotten.
And thats mainly why lotta vets have quit in disgust. They never intended to go jedi or ever expected them to be common and take over the war. And publish after publish went to jedi sealed the deal, especially for smugglers who waited to smuggle like the box advertised.
wrong... wrong and wrong... it was stated since day 1 that you can become a jedi... that it was going to be "HARD" to attain... but like in any online game you can NOT stop people from achieving what they want most...
and i know lots quit because they didnt want to grind out to get their jedi... one stopped because he had to do bio engineer... he said no way...and another quit because he got tailor.... he never wanted to be a tailor...
others i know in fact many grew stale of all the bugs SOE never fixed... a cm infested GCW and pvp... BUGS though were major... and then the nerfs... nerfed commando nerfed this... nerfed that... some quit the minute they put a switch timer on weapons...
so no it was not because of "JEDI" this false illusion of yours is all wrong...
trying to actually fit something into the full chain of events that had nothing to do with jedi....
after publish 9 yeah i can see where some quit because of lightsaber damage being in game... but others found ways to counter it... with the lightsaber psgs... others cried to quitting themselves... but people quit long before this...
lack of content was another major one...
we can go on and on as to why people quit this game....
me and my bro bought this game because it was advertised you can be a jedi.... not because i wanted to be a damm entertainer...
me and him both played since day 1... and havent stopped since... i have seen all the chain of events that cause the people to quit... and mostly NOT because of jedi....
hell quite a few smugglers quit because of why? well gee where is their promised publish? SOE has been slow to fixing things is what killed this game for them....NOT JEDI...
in fact you might as well thank jedi for keeping this game alive for as long as it has been...i know its the only reason i am still here... is my jedi.... other than that i would be gone from this broken game after 2 years of bugs...some of which have been around since day 1 and have reappeared...
Message Edited by Willvas on 09-26-2005 11:32 AM
Genildor
Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:31 pm
#12
Sandsifter wrote:
After talking to several new players in our guild, I realized its a huge mistake for SOE to repeal the xp nerf. Players once again have found ways around SOE's attempts to slow things down.
Players are now mastering and reaching level 80 a week after they bought the game...totally ridiculous. I many times have been asked obvious newbie questions which confused me because the player was level 80. Im thinking why is a vet lvl 80 asking me how to type in a waypoint or name a droid or what does food do ??? The answer is because these guys are similiar to buying an account ready-made off ebay. they have all the power of a veteran player but none of the knowledge.
And of course this also translates into faster jedi. Soon I see 75% of population being jedi (i believe its already 50% now). With so many jedi around, this creates even more issues with balance. Jedi being the alpha male class of this mmorpg MUST be rare. Otherwise balance issues creep up. You cant allow a majority of players to be more powerful than the rest. This is why every other mmorpg out there really doesnt have an alpha class. In the end, everyone wants it and strives for nothing else.
And SOE has nobody to blame but themselves and maybe Lucas. They saw the money WoW made and decided to focus their target market to appeal the WoW kiddies. And no offense but that generation is the entitlement crowd who feel they are owed a jedi account with the flawless pearls to go with it. They made the game dumbed down and easier to appeal to that market. Therefore they reap what they sow. Now we have a majority of immature players hel bent on getting jedi. And this is creating a snowball effect. The few remaining non-jedi vets are quitting enmass disgusted with these new players.
And with these kids being a majority, SOE had to bow down to them and give up the much needed xp nerf. What did they expect after several weeks of double xp, free grind on ryatt trail, and no visibility for grouping.
Most folks look at the hologrind of december 03 as the start of the end for this game. I disagree, the xp nerf is whats going to finish the game. You simply cant allow an alpha class to be common for the sake of balance. And making the game so easy only means everyone gets bored and quits that much faster. mmorpgs are meant to be a long-term solution to gamers who want more than a game they beat in 3 days. For some reason, that basic rule in mmorpgs has been lost with this fast-food generation and SOE has bent over to them.
You are 100% correct. Templates mean nothing with the way it is. When they said they were changing how experience worked, i was blissful. 2 days later... nope... developers gave in.
Willvas
Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:36 pm
#13
oh and about the xp... that would of just killed this game...
you could always grind out a profession in stars galaxies in a day... that is nothing NEW.... and jedi are no longer an alpha class... any good pvper who knows what they are doing can take a jedi out... just gotta have the good gear and good food and good template....
end of story...
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