Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Force Defender
MTOSVEN
Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:39 pm
#105
Hello everyone!
Well Defender seems to be working pretty damn good. Just a few minor tweeks is all I can think of.
1) 1000 force cost for AI...ouch...added with a SNARE...double ouch. This seems pretty harsh and hastley implemented. There are TONS of ways to counter AI, roots, snares, concussion shot, paralyze, statis god I could go on. AI is not a I/WIN move at all just prolongs your staying power. I would say either get rid of the high cost and put it back to where it was, or leave the 1000 FORCE COST and dump the snare. Maybe make it in the FRS to get % bonusesto lower force costs, or prolong how long you can AI for...just ideas.
2) Force Jump. We all see the cool defense FORCE JUMP moves everyone makes in the movies, why not give a defense flip or jump move. Say it breaks a root or a snare but with a high force cost...just a crazy idea.
3) Maybe a ADVANCED Aura at Master Level lasting longer?
4) Have a Resist Armor Break initate ability or power.
Just some ideas.
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Svenson
SF-5
TylerDarkman
Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:57 pm
#106
please get rid of the damn snare on AI.....it is a great tree to have. The skills are all awesome until you get to master. Then you become a gimped retard with the snare on AI.
GultronICE
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:05 pm
#107
scoutdude wrote:
cool down on aura .... whats the point
Cooldown is needed to make breach actually do something.. i see you hit aura.. i breach you.. then you can't re-apply it instantly cause of the cooldown.
Firestorm-Lowca
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:13 pm
#108
DarthINSANUS wrote:
AI (Avoid Incap) Is too easily counterd in pvp.
In J v J fighting :
Stasis lasting 45 seconds, and AI lasting 30, basically guarantees that if it is applied to an AI defender, that he has NO chance of ever recuperating from that.
Now take away Jedi duels, go to large scale pvp, and NOT ONLY stasis has this ability, also the Concussion shot from Smuggler, and Paralyze from CM.
These are great and tactical moves in and of itself, but with so many combat charcters having these skills, AI really has become useless in the pvp arena.
IMO Either AI should be immune to these "paralyze type moves" (It already has a snare)
OR AI needs changed totally.(So many people have complained of this move being to strong since its introduction)
Perhaps, AI should receive the 90 % damage reduce that FR2/3 get. This way a defender can tank for a moment without dying, but without the ability to kill anyone either..
The move is still usfull for pve encounters, but I dont think that should be a master skills only usefullness.
NO other skill in the game has such strong counters,rendering this a useless skill on the battlefield (pvp)..
ever heard of something called a stim ?? You can use that while on AI
-Rikard-
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:14 pm
#109
These are just my views of M.Defender:
1)State Defence: Problem with this, is states don't work. PLain and simple.
2) Dominate Mind: This skill is meant to allow a defender to tank MoBs in PvE, since it is supposed to be the ultimate tanking profession, however it does not hold agro. As soon as someone out damages you, the agro goes to them, thus negating the purpose of being a tank.
3) Avoid Incap: This skill is too easily counterd in PvP with stasis, concussion shot, panic shot, paralyse. I would recommend making the duration last at least as long as these other moves, that way, you at least have some chance of survival. I also don't see the point of the self snare. The high force cost alone is enough, in my opinion.
4) Force Valor: I don't really see any use for this skill personaly. It doesn't do much, when you think about having on force aura. Bumping up the saber block mod is my suggestion. Also, this is just a personal thing, I think Valor belongs in the ranged defence tree, not preternatural, but that ain't really too important.
5) I know someone may have already said this, but master defender is supposed to be the strongest defence tree in jedi. But, Force armor, plus aura, and you can be basically just as good as a master, while you are dabbling. Master defenders aren't supposed to be invincible, but are supposed to be the hardest to hurt out of all jedi. I don't know if they would add something to master defender to make this true, or not, but I'd like to see it. Maybe Advanced versions ofthe defence skills, aura and valor, with higher defence for both. This is just a thought though
Bodyslamma
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:27 pm
#110
Someone stated longer up: "Place force aura to master def box."
May I ask why? That would make force defense useless.
You can rather remove avoid incap, and add adavnce force aura 1000 def points that last for 1 min. Try that one please....
AtonuTragona
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:42 pm
#111
Wish List
1. Fix AI to be a useful skill and worthy of a master box.
2. Consider toggles, similar to force run. All the button pushing and macros are silly. Why not add a new command that lets you check box other abilities (beside auto attack) that go off again once they expire?
3. Area Taunt - not for me, but for the glass cannons I hunt with.
However, defender is working fairly well.......Please Don't Let the Devs Screw It Up!
I'd rather have zero fixes than some chunker goon "helping" us.
dubiousmastax
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:42 pm
#112
To become a master defender, one must either give up offensive potential or healing potential; therefore, it is detrimental to have armor break negate the foundation of our template.
If nearly every jedi in the game has armorbreak, and nearly every melee template has armorbreak (swords are the most prevalent melee) then jedi defenders are in dire straits.
So long story short, give us resistance to armorbreak (it could even be implemented exactly as jedi toughness once was)
Also, as a Master Defender I feel I get hit by states too often. I dont know if the numbers need tweaked or not but certain NPCs inflict states on every single encounter. I'm not saying we should be immune to states, but I think state defense should be a little better.
The bottom line is that one can either take active or passive defense. If I devote my studies of the force to toughening my skin and learning the art of not being vulnerable, then I think I should have to rely less on replenishment (healing) to keep my health up. Defender is passive.
And now for the dreaming...
...give defenders a Battle Meditation line! Not a post fight meditation like the force regen one enhancers get, but rather a focusing of force, spirit, and will, to prepare for the coming battle (much like the Japanese concept of Mokuso) . Or perhaps a defender could meditate to gain a bonus to avoidance and blocking. The longer the MDef meditates the longer the buff will last (just like inspiration buffs) Battle Meditation should also allow a Master Defender to wait out the effects of fire without taking ticks to health. This is purely a for show thing, but if a MDef with battle meditation gets inflamed then he should be able to sit and meditate while the flames engulf him (obviously this could not be accomplished during a fight as there are too many distractions, preventing meditation)
If nearly every jedi in the game has armorbreak, and nearly every melee template has armorbreak (swords are the most prevalent melee) then jedi defenders are in dire straits.
So long story short, give us resistance to armorbreak (it could even be implemented exactly as jedi toughness once was)
Also, as a Master Defender I feel I get hit by states too often. I dont know if the numbers need tweaked or not but certain NPCs inflict states on every single encounter. I'm not saying we should be immune to states, but I think state defense should be a little better.
The bottom line is that one can either take active or passive defense. If I devote my studies of the force to toughening my skin and learning the art of not being vulnerable, then I think I should have to rely less on replenishment (healing) to keep my health up. Defender is passive.
And now for the dreaming...
...give defenders a Battle Meditation line! Not a post fight meditation like the force regen one enhancers get, but rather a focusing of force, spirit, and will, to prepare for the coming battle (much like the Japanese concept of Mokuso) . Or perhaps a defender could meditate to gain a bonus to avoidance and blocking. The longer the MDef meditates the longer the buff will last (just like inspiration buffs) Battle Meditation should also allow a Master Defender to wait out the effects of fire without taking ticks to health. This is purely a for show thing, but if a MDef with battle meditation gets inflamed then he should be able to sit and meditate while the flames engulf him (obviously this could not be accomplished during a fight as there are too many distractions, preventing meditation)
Eked
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:51 pm
#113
dubiousmastax wrote:
Also, as a Master Defender I feel I get hit by states too often. I dont know if the numbers need tweaked or not but certain NPCs inflict states on every single encounter. I'm not saying we should be immune to states, but I think state defense should be a little better.
so true, as a mdef I have armor break landed on me just as fast as a non-mdef.... you'd think it would at least take a cpl tries to land.
ZarienYage
Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:01 am
#114
There should be a real good reason to want to get a master box in any of the jedi tree's. As of right now someone can just get a couple in defenderand be just as good as a MDEF. The Innate armor is junk. Try turining off aura and valor and watch how much damage u take and forget about it if your armor broken. So there should be advanced versions of aura and valor in the master box and the improved versions should do alot less then now.
As it stands now there really isnt much to want in any of the master boxes, sabers dervish is terrible, and no one even comes close to wanting master healer, the only one that is decent atm is enhancer. So NO MORE NERFS to jedi... Lets fix the tree's nownot cut them down!
MsNiL
Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:09 am
#115
I have already given some state invulnerability ideas in my post...
VPittou wrote:
remove all states in master box (including ab)
msnill is going to kick me between the legs for this
Immunity vs mezzes when avoid incap... Jedi State Defenses to include defense vs post-cu states...
Although I promote the removal of all recoveries (except knockdown) since they weaken a few specific professions while other's abilities are left without counters. For example, Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter have Stun/Dizzy and Blind in their attacks, while Smuggler/CombatMedic's states have no recoveries. Why should you be able to easily shrug off the states from Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter but not by Smugglers and CombatMedics?
Ohwell. That's off topic.
KeeferKman
Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:11 am
#116
ZarienYage wrote:
There should be a real good reason to want to get a master box in any of the jedi tree's. As of right now someone can just get a couple in defenderand be just as good as a MDEF. The Innate armor is junk. Try turining off aura and valor and watch how much damage u take and forget about it if your armor broken. So there should be advanced versions of aura and valor in the master box and the improved versions should do alot less then now.
As it stands now there really isnt much to want in any of the master boxes, sabers dervish is terrible, and no one even comes close to wanting master healer, the only one that is decent atm is enhancer. So NO MORE NERFS to jedi... Lets fix the tree's nownot cut them down!
/cheer we luv you man
VPittou
Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:14 am
#117
MsNiL wrote:I have already given some state invulnerability ideas in my post...
VPittou wrote:
remove all states in master box (including ab)
msnill is going to kick me between the legs for this
Immunity vs mezzes when avoid incap... Jedi State Defenses to include defense vs post-cu states...Although I promote the removal of all recoveries (except knockdown) since they weaken a few specific professions while other's abilities are left without counters. For example, Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter have Stun/Dizzy and Blind in their attacks, while Smuggler/CombatMedic's states have no recoveries. Why should you be able to easily shrug off the states from Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter but not by Smugglers and CombatMedics?Ohwell. That's off topic.
yes , but youre ideas is more like a revamp
we all know that is more likley not going to happen