Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Force Defender
rebellious_imp wrote:
as a mls mp(yea i'm being selfish), i'm opposed to defender having some type of counter to armor break.
we all know about force defense and powers.
if defender gets armor break resistance, i'm really out of luck lol.
You know what man, this is one of best and most honest posts I've seen. I don't agree that MLS should dominate the way they do now (especially MLS/Def or MLS/Enh), but at least you were clear and upfront about your position without flaming anyone. /patonBack
SITHDUKE wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Force Push/Pull
Allow a Defender to "push"/"pull" enemies. Force Push can be used to push an enemy away from him to halt them from attacking him in melee. A more important ability is to allow a Defender toForce Pull an enemy close to him. Force Pull is best used when Rooted or Snared (perhaps when using "Avoid Incap"). Force Pull ensures that a Defender is not a sitting duck in combat, and even allows for pvp tanking, removing opposing players who is currently attacking his weaker friends.
An alternative is to make Mind Dominate work on other players...
Nice idea
Where would this go? Maybe force-pull has a chance of unequiping their currently equipped weapon forcing them to re-equip it. (Doesn't work on lightsabers).
Im thinking Force Pull as a Ranged Defense and Force Push as a Melee Defense. So thoose go in thoose skillines IMO.
Force of Will
A Defender needs a way to quickly recover from Incapacitated State, especially when combined with A.I. To be the one who do not stay down fits the role as Defender. This is also a counter to the rather tricky "Daze the A.I guy" tactic.
What would the penalties be though upon failure or partial sucess? Maybe failure +20 seconds to incap timer and partial sucess slight 15second groggyness in all Ham Regen. Where would this ability go?
Force of Will is as you may know a Teras Kasi ability and it's currently not working as intended. By having the same ability as they do I trust it would stay balanced since 2 professions rely on it. I feel it fit's best in Prenatural Defense or Force Defense.
WarCry
Give Force Defender's a WarCry ability that temporary reduces the opponents attack speed, slowing down their damage output. This is to be used while tanking.
Very true, Pikemen get it to assume their tank role i can't see anything wrong aslong as it doesn't stack with any other types of warcrys. Be a very welcomed addition, i do belive this is a pretty powerful ability however...at the risk of sounding selfish i do think an ability with this power should be a Master box placement. Where would this ability go?
As Force of Will, somewhere in Prenatural Defense or Force Defense. Yes, it's rather powerful depending on the amount of speed penalty. Ofcourse, the effect can be made rather low if it's too overpowered. Maybe -10 at basic and -20 at improved. It's meant to slow down attacks against the Defender a bit, which works as an additional defense. A direct copy of WarCry might be overpowered. WarCry is -40 for 20 seconds, and so is Low Blow.
lovisa wrote:
dominate mind should work but dont every time atm
imp dominate mind should be area
aura , valor should be toggle with force cost on for every sec it is used (like we have when we use macro on it nowdays )
AI should loose the snare and the force cost is pretty much but the snare is the worst part of it atmas i see it
a master defender should have more defens against poisen , diseases and fire aswell
force defens agaist stats seams not working ( have not tested)
nooooooo, please no toggle and force tick on aura and valor, that would be a nerf, only because some people can't live without a marco they don't need to nerf it for other. i'm better of without this toggle.
the defense against poison ect. would be nice but i think it is the domain for enhancer and healer
an improvment would be if master would get a longer lasting aura and valor. and if ai would lose the snare would be nice, the force cost is steap enough.
and dominate mind need to be improved right now we can apply it on the target and any combat profession and doc get the aggro back right away when hit the target or heal the defender.
with the new slicing system the defender lanes should get some kind of force slice.
I wouldnt say never.
VPittou wrote:
yes , but youre ideas is more like a revamp
MsNiL wrote:
I have already given some state invulnerability ideas in my post...
VPittou wrote:
remove all states in master box (including ab)
msnill is going to kick me between the legs for this
Immunity vs mezzes when avoid incap... Jedi State Defenses to include defense vs post-cu states...
Although I promote the removal of all recoveries (except knockdown) since they weaken a few specific professions while other's abilities are left without counters. For example, Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter have Stun/Dizzy and Blind in their attacks, while Smuggler/CombatMedic's states have no recoveries. Why should you be able to easily shrug off the states from Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter but not by Smugglers and CombatMedics?
Ohwell. That's off topic.
we all know that is more likley not going to happen
MsNiL wrote:I wouldnt say never.
VPittou wrote:
yes , but youre ideas is more like a revamp
MsNiL wrote:
I have already given some state invulnerability ideas in my post...
VPittou wrote:
remove all states in master box (including ab)
msnill is going to kick me between the legs for this
Immunity vs mezzes when avoid incap... Jedi State Defenses to include defense vs post-cu states...Although I promote the removal of all recoveries (except knockdown) since they weaken a few specific professions while other's abilities are left without counters. For example, Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter have Stun/Dizzy and Blind in their attacks, while Smuggler/CombatMedic's states have no recoveries. Why should you be able to easily shrug off the states from Lightsaber and Bounty Hunter but not by Smugglers and CombatMedics?Ohwell. That's off topic.
we all know that is more likley not going to happen
In the game some skillsets where said to be "out of scope of the CU". Ironically thoose skillsets are now the most flawed.I still keep my hopes up. ^_^
honestly iam afraid of revamp
If we get another one , we are going to be lynched by the other proffesions this time
We should rather concentrate on getting the other disciplines up to par.
Message Edited by Jaktar on 07-29-2005 12:35 PM
Homper wrote:
Puttley wrote:
another way to look at the AB issue:
a jedi witha a nice saberhits with Headhitagainst aM.Def after beingAB for 851 dam after armor
the same jedi hits a M.Rifleman/M.CM with decent 75%AB sliced7700/3700/5700 recon armor for 653dam after armor
anyone see a problem?
I agree with you 100% and then some.
All the people saying its working just fine are either A) Not Master Defenders and don't know how it works, or B) Master Defender Haters.
Master Defender has problems that need attention in a very big way.
How can anyone justify allowing Defenders to continue on with 1 useless power in the master boxes that has self imposed pentalties, a FC of 1000, has an even greater penalty for stacking it.... and most of all, Its entire Armor rating nearly negated by a simple Tier 2/4 ability ?
Come on... this is a problem if there ever was one. Defenders needs an Armor Break Resist in their master box.
AI needs to get fixed. As it stands now, everything in PVP counters it from Stasis to the smuggler tricks. Its defenses after Armor broken are not enough to make it viable.
For that, you might as well just take 0040.
Message Edited by Homper on 09-09-2005 10:08 AM
QFE
I do not see how armor break can break armor that is not there. All the other master box moves are used more often i na fight than AI yet AI gets the nerf bat 1000 force cost is too much.
DarthINSANUS wrote:
AI (Avoid Incap) Is too easily counterd in pvp.
In J v J fighting :
Stasis lasting 45 seconds, and AI lasting 30, basically guarantees that if it is applied to an AI defender, that he has NO chance of ever recuperating from that.
Now take away Jedi duels, go to large scale pvp, and NOT ONLY stasis has this ability, also the Concussion shot from Smuggler, and Paralyze from CM.
These are great and tactical moves in and of itself, but with so many combat charcters having these skills, AI really has become useless in the pvp arena.
IMO Either AI should be immune to these "paralyze type moves" (It already has a snare)
OR AI needs changed totally.(So many people have complained of this move being to strong since its introduction)
Perhaps, AI should receive the 90 % damage reduce that FR2/3 get. This way a defender can tank for a moment without dying, but without the ability to kill anyone either..
The move is still usfull for pve encounters, but I dont think that should be a master skills only usefullness.
NO other skill in the game has such strong counters,rendering this a useless skill on the battlefield (pvp)..
Cafa wrote:
DarthINSANUS wrote:
AI (Avoid Incap) Is too easily counterd in pvp.
In J v J fighting :
Stasis lasting 45 seconds, and AI lasting 30, basically guarantees that if it is applied to an AI defender, that he has NO chance of ever recuperating from that.
Now take away Jedi duels, go to large scale pvp, and NOT ONLY stasis has this ability, also the Concussion shot from Smuggler, and Paralyze from CM.
These are great and tactical moves in and of itself, but with so many combat charcters having these skills, AI really has become useless in the pvp arena.
IMO Either AI should be immune to these "paralyze type moves" (It already has a snare)
OR AI needs changed totally.(So many people have complained of this move being to strong since its introduction)
Perhaps, AI should receive the 90 % damage reduce that FR2/3 get. This way a defender can tank for a moment without dying, but without the ability to kill anyone either..
The move is still usfull for pve encounters, but I dont think that should be a master skills only usefullness.
NO other skill in the game has such strong counters,rendering this a useless skill on the battlefield (pvp)..
Jedi can't tank if they can't produce damage to draw the hate. Damage reduction further removes a MDEF from the tanking roll.
very true. Devs for the love of God I hope you are reading these latest messages.