Jedi Archive
Thread: Jedi must be able to since Danger (BH and BH Droids)
antares_Kauri wrote:
Not so. Jedi have asked for several nerfs/changes to other classes. Not only skill loss, but for specials to be moved or changed somehow (area track for example). Jedi want the "I win" button to be an integral part of the class, given in the initiate box. I agree Jedi should be more powerful, but the idea of power came with rarity (no longer exists) and difficulty (ginding millions of xp is not difficult, just dull). I don't want dozens of high-powered leet-talking Jedi running around my server controlling pvp everywhere.
Most the Jedi do not really think that other classes should be nerfed, or that they should suffer a skill loss.. What they are for the most part trying to do, is point out the fact that we take a huge risk even playing our characters every day. And perhaps they wouldnt be so eager to join the hunt if there was some sort of penalty, but as it stands its just a free for all on the poor sap of a jedi that gets his name on the BH boards. While yes permadeath has been removed and it has been reworked to a skill loss system (Which by the way is exteremely bugged, and not working properly) was put in it's place, there is still an extreme penalty to us dying (and if you dont see a 1.6 million combat xp loss or even a 3.2 million combat xp loss as extreme...I only want to ask if i can have some of what you are on).
As far as Jedi running around controlling PVP everywhere, doubtful, I am sure if you were to take a poll of how many Jedi actually plan on spending most thier time after reaching master doing PVP. It would probably be like 5% of the Jedi across all the servers would be doing nothing but PVP.. And more then likely the vast majority of them would probably only PVP in self defense.. Personally, when i hit Master I'll probably walk into some city activate a force power to get a tef, and see just how many people it takes to put me in the clone center.. And then afterwards go off to be some hermit on a dustball of a planet where i would want to be left alone.
KyleKnox wrote:
Anakin and Obiwan DID sense the danger of the BH assassin droid going after amidala.
And BTW -the droid QuiGonn did'nt sense was not from a BH - but from a Sith that was obviously masking his own presnece since tehy didnt sense Darth Maul, either...so there...lol
that wasnt a droid, it was a worm.
SimianHunter wrote:
And in Ep I, Qui-gon and Obi-wan feel danger on the trade federation ship when they are about to be gassed. Qui-gon feels Darth Maul coming on tatooine and tells Obi-wan to get on the ship with Anakin. Qui-gon blatantly says to Anakin's mother "he can see things before they happen, it's a Jedi trait." What more do you need, a giant Neon sign saying "we can sense danger" with fireworks all around it?
Well actually Jedi danger sense does seem to be getting grouped into a "Spider sense" type of thing, this is only half true.. The Jedi "Sensing abilities" would actually be two different abilities one being a short ranged sense of immediate impending danger (yes equivalant of "Spider sense" so to speak).. The other one is a sort of clarivoyance type sense where the Jedi gets actual glimpses of the future, some of these are only a split second glimpse into the future that allows him to narrowly avoid being hit by a blaster bolt, or dodge an opponents LS Blade.. But then some of them are even glimpses into a distant future, such as Yoda having told the leader of the force witches on Dathomir, that one day Luke would visit them..
Now while for the most part this would be impossible for them to program into the game (granted I'd love to get aimage flashedacross my screenof some BH at a mission terminal picking up a mission to come and hunt me), I'd settle for a small little message coming across my screen "You sense a disturbance in the force" just enough to give me a heads up.
KyleKnox wrote:
LOL - want to talk about fair??? Try taking on ANY elite combat class with a jedi initiate, even after you've spent 4-6 weeks of hard grinding to level him - enough to master ANY class, including BH , several times over. There will be NOTHING fair about that fight. But BH's arent really interested in fairness...
4-6 weeks?? yea if you grind your ass offand I mean real heavy grinding.Nothing about the BH class is about "fairness" we are supposed to attack when your feel comfortable and unexpecting. Not when you know we are comming. Thats like the cops calling a wanted man a 1/2 hour before they arrest them. I can see it now... "Hey this is the cops, yes we are gonna arrest you in a bout a half hour. So don't run ok?"
So please stop thinking this is supposed to be a level playing field in the Jedi/BH hunt. First Strike is everything either you "get" it or you get "got."
JediNerfherder wrote:
SimianHunter wrote:
And in Ep I, Qui-gon and Obi-wan feel danger on the trade federation ship when they are about to be gassed. Qui-gon feels Darth Maul coming on tatooine and tells Obi-wan to get on the ship with Anakin. Qui-gon blatantly says to Anakin's mother "he can see things before they happen, it's a Jedi trait." What more do you need, a giant Neon sign saying "we can sense danger" with fireworks all around it?
Well actually Jedi danger sense does seem to be getting grouped into a "Spider sense" type of thing, this is only half true.. The Jedi "Sensing abilities" would actually be two different abilities one being a short ranged sense of immediate impending danger (yes equivalant of "Spider sense" so to speak).. The other one is a sort of clarivoyance type sense where the Jedi gets actual glimpses of the future, some of these are only a split second glimpse into the future that allows him to narrowly avoid being hit by a blaster bolt, or dodge an opponents LS Blade.. But then some of them are even glimpses into a distant future, such as Yoda having told the leader of the force witches on Dathomir, that one day Luke would visit them..
Now while for the most part this would be impossible for them to program into the game (granted I'd love to get aimage flashedacross my screenof some BH at a mission terminal picking up a mission to come and hunt me), I'd settle for a small little message coming across my screen "You sense a disturbance in the force" just enough to give me a heads up.
Real quick then i'm off to my fourms again
Sure sounds good but lets make it a Jedi Master ability. Because lets be honest if you can sense force disturbance at low levels then you would pick up every Chuba that didn't like the way you looked. You would be swamped with disturbance because of the simple fact that your untrained in your abilities. How's that sound eh?
antares_Kauri wrote:
SimianHunter wrote:
You are deluded, and I don't have the time right now to post every reason why. When I get a chance I'll explain what Jedi "want" and it's most certainly not the "I win" button. It's what the devs promised since beta. You are also deluded to think that rarity doesn't exist, the system of unlocking Jedi is changing to make it more rare, and Jedi are about to be instakilled because of lack of defense and the fact that any idiot BH can find us by double clicking a droid and getting a waypoint. Trust me, Jedi will be more rare after Publish 7 than they have been since they were added to the game.No, you're deluded! Hehe, this is fun.
I agree Jedi should have the abilities promised early on, but a lot of things were promised early on that have changed. Personally, I don't have a problem with Jedi being rarer, but that's me personally. I have problems with the Jedi attitude (not the normal complaints over valid issues, but the extra stuff we see on these boards)
I'm really only here saying that one side calling the other side idiotic is inane in itself, whether it's a Jedi or a BH doing it. There are players of all kinds on both sides. BH whine, Jedi whine, BH call for nerfs, Jedi call for nerfs, BH want more power, Jedi want more power. Can't you guys just see....that you're in love with each other?
antares
master pikeman
Honestly, there are some cool BHs out there, I'm not saying every BH is an idiot. The problem is that 90% of the ones we see on this board are asinine griefers who are here ONLY to sabotage calls for fixes to the Jedi profession. On the flip side, 80% of the Jedi that we see on the board are posting legitimate complaints in regards to their character and the other 20% are pointing out things they think should have been thought about (with a few asking for illogical changes). For the most part those Jedi who have "called for nerfs to other classes" were doing so in response to those classes saying that we are overpowered or saying that we don't need to be fixed. The talk of BHs losing Investigation experience was to get them thinking about how much they would hate to lose all their work because they got killed by some bug or exploit. Up until that suggestion BHs were whining that skill loss wasn't enough of a punishment for Jedi, but as soon as the suggestion was that they lose a box of investigation (about 1/1000th the work of 1 Jedi exp box) they were up in arms crying foul. This was the point of the suggestion, to show that they were being hypocritical and asinine. As for the TKA nerf call or the KD/Dizzy nerf call, that's come from EVERYONE, not just Jedi, and for damned good reason. I've been a TKM and I dropped the class because no one could touch me in PVP. It was boring always winning with minimal effort.
As for the issue of Jedi power, it's overwhelmingly obvious that the current Jedi template was rushed to publish. Up until the day people started unlocking their FS slots Jedi were supposed to be able to pick from other professions and get support skills. The devs said so themselves. They changed this, and in so doing, left a template that, while overwhelmingly powerful when merged with other professional skills, sucks as a stand alone profession. It's blatantly obvious just from looking at the fact that the profession can't be mastered due to no apprentice xp, and the fact that Jedi have very little in the way of support skills for their character that the Jedi profession was unfinished when it was unlocked. This is why they are doing the Jedi profession revamp, because they know that they have done no testing on the profession since beta and have changed nothing to balance it with the other professions (and their newly patched skill sets/defense mods) since beta 3.
Asheesh wrote:
SimianHunter,
I have read many of your posts over the months and appreciated many of them, but here you seem to have lost your mind somewhat.
I don't see how I've lost my mind by stating that I hope the devs thought enough ahead to put in something as blatantly obvious as sensing when you are being tracked. It's not that difficult to see that Jedi would know when they are being tracked down for extermination, and it's no great leap to see that it's going to be absolutely required to make the droid tracking in any way, shape, or form a fair element of gameplay. Gaming systems are built on skills and counterskills. Having a skill or power with no counter is unbalancing, and having the ability for BH not only to find their prey easily, but to kill them just as easily is counter productive to enjoyment of the game. While I agree that we should wait til we see the system in action before we start complaining, I don't see why we can't start discussing what they SHOULD implement with this change. If we're lucky, someone at SOE is monitoring this forum and might even consider the idea if they aren't already.
If we are talking about something and they see it and think "oh wow, we forgot about that" then the discussion wasn't a total waste of time. Anything that makes this game actually SEEM like Star Wars at this point would be welcomed with open arms, and Jedi sensing they are in danger is a major theme in Star Wars (go back and watch all the films, you'll see it if you watch their reactions). I watched Episode I on TV today, and aside from realizing it is even worse of a movie than I originally thought, I noticed TONS of places where Obi-wan and Qui-gon showed that they knew what was going to happen or knew they were in danger. Aside from the horrible dialog, the movie has a lot of cool little bits of information on how to play your Jedi from an action/reaction point of view. However, if I ever hear someone say a line from Ep I or II I'll kill them where they stand.
Prolyfik wrote:Ok, please think this through.If a jedi can "since" (lmao) that a bh is comming for him, he will just /logout. You know that would happen.Also if you want a penalty for a bh failing a mission, then I want your grouped buddies to not be able to defend you.Fair is fair after all...Let's be honest here...Jedi have nothing to lose anymore. The worst that can happen to you is that you can't play for a week or something.
1) Jedi can sense danger, whether you think people will log out or not isn't the issue. If logging out is the only way a Jedi can keep alive, then that doesn't say much for the devs vision of the Jedi profession does it?
2) Penalties for BHs failing their mission was simply a tongue in cheek suggestion to make BHs realize how much they would hate being in our shoes and hopefully make them shut up about skill loss not being enough of a penalty. It's funny how a BH says that we have nothing to lose from the skill loss system, then turns around and vehemently attacks people who suggest they get it too just to see how it really is.
3) If people in our groups can't defend us then the BH has to fight alone as well, fair is fair after all. The idea of BHs losing experience when they failed a mission was perfectly balanced with the idea of Jedi losing experience if the BH succeeded in his mission. Removing the ability for the Jedi to be defended by his friends/PA just makes the playing field unbalanced again. Either way, the idea was only thrown out there because we wanted BHs to realize how hypocritical and asinine they were being by suggesting that Jedi weren't getting penalized enough.
4) If you think 200,000-1,500,000 combat experience is "nothing to lose" you're insane. You do realize that Jedi still have more to lose than any class in the game right? Permadeath was a joke, it should never have been implemented considering the state of Jedi right now. Permadeath was supposed to balance out the fact that Jedi were so powerful they could kill over 40 players at Master, or around 20 players at Knight. The current state of Jedi is that they get killed by a Master Brawler at Knight level, and are lucky to beat any PvP template at Guardian level. The worst that can happen to a Jedi is that you are set back 3-4 weeks work and you have to wait a week for your death to decay. The worst that can happen to any other profession is that they end up in the cloning facility with no penalty whatsoever (no wounds, no decay on items, nothing). And no, losing the 5k you spent on doctor buffs doesn't count as a penalty.
Prolyfik wrote:
he will just /logout. You know that would happen.
Ok, heres a little something to think about... most jedi (granted these guys will probably not end up on the missions often) are gonna be out there solo and even without warning, they will most likely spot you on thier radar (trust me i've tested this) and hop on thier swoop bike or even force run as we can pretty much do that non stop.. which means your never gonna get the chance to get off your bike and fire your shot you will be chasing them from the moment you see them... now that they are already moving and out of your firing range, all they need to do is find a good sized body of water and drive 1-2k meteres from land. At which point you will not be able to attack them even if your sitting right next to them, and then they /quit which every time i have tested this it's taken about 90-120 seconds for the character to disappear.
Now the real question is, do you want to waste all the time tracking a guy to end up seeing him /quit out, or would u rather launch a probe and see the guy disappear before you hit the starport?
Believe me, some Jedi will stay around, as the BH and thier droids and the missions are just as much JEDI content as it is BH content...
What it really boils down to is a matter of choice.. Sure if a Jedi is in a city accidently presses a wrong key activates a force command and tef's, his bad, he's open for attack, he accepts this.. If a Jedi is out hunting swinging his lightsaber around and is TEF, he accepts the fact that someone may WANDER by and attack him..
Now, with some sort of warning system if he chooses to stick around he accepts the consequences of his actions...Thatis his choice to make. Just as the BH by picking up the mission automatically accepts the consequences of his actions this is his choice....without some sort of fair warning to the Jedi that he is being hunted this boils down to a BH trying to force a pvp encounter that the player on the other side of the screen just might not happen to feel like dealing with at that moment in time (I mean come on after avoiding 20 bh's in one day a person just might get sick of it and /logout). Also without the warning do you even consider it a challenge to walk up hit your "I win" Kd/dizzy button and db someone? This right here suggests that you are only interested in a quick easy duck in a barrel shoot and 150k. Not the actual HUNT and CONTENT this was meant to be.
Personally, I like the BH's that are at least saying they will/do /tell jedi hey, i've got a mission I'm coming for you..maybe i'll slip up, maybe you'll get lucky.. but never the less here i come.... that right there shows good form, style, and respect of another player, and in turn definitely earns my respect back.
As far as danger sense goes, perhaps it could be displayed as simply as a system message about any bounty hunter with a mission on the jedi within 1000m, or any player within 500m while a Jedi has a TEF.