Jedi Archive
Thread: More info on Jedi Visibility...
Leviathan25
Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:41 am
#92
This is rediculous. JustG, why would devs change mission payouts based on jedi skill level, now players like myself who have weaker jedi will be attacked non-stop by gank squads if we're on the terminals, not only that but it takes 3 weeks to get off? Very stupid move if you ask me, bh shouldn't be able to know the strength of their target until they engage them in combat.
Khamsinvera
Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:56 am
#93
I'm nowhere close to being a jedi, dont like jedis very much either (during PvP)... and even I think that this new system is BS 
VQT
Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:57 am
#94
So let me get this straight.....
As a Knight, I lose 500k xp if i get db'd by a BH and 200k xp when i clone. So for each death I lose 700k xp?
Makes so much sense when half our trees don't work. I guess my Jedi goes back to the shelf.
johnautry613
Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:34 am
#95
This is FAR to over weighted.
My biggest issue is the fact that they allow the exp to go negative.
Get rid of the EXP holw and we will have something that is balanced.
If you think wiping out 7-9 hours of hardcore grinding is acceptable, that is your perogative.
but to wipe out literal days of grinding that we have not yet done, is not 'fun', and not acceptable.
Give us some form of balance on this.
Aanu
Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:37 am
#96
Bishop_76 wrote:
I think what people need to think about here is that the Dev's want Jedi hard to play and hard to level. If visibility is made to be easier to avoid and thus making Jedi easier to level, then it is my concern that Jedi will get more ability or power nerfs. This is the reason I believe the new xp loss was put in.....you can either take xp losses or take nerfs. I would rather take the xp loss because if they nerf powers/abilities down, what fun would it be to play a Jedi when you could just be a swordsman instead?
Also, I am not advocating Jedi being able to destroy 20 man groups, but I thinka Knight should be able to stand up to3 well played PC's or 5 poorly played ones.Coming from EQ, Iwould also think that BHers who like a challenge would like to takle a stronger character because in essence it is likehaving a raid on aPC character.
My sentiments exactly.
The visibility system stated here seems fair to me. A LS is the weapon of the Jedi and equipping one should give you visibility.
Seems like the Jedi are being forced to keep it on the down low which is precisly the way it should be. You should be leveling in remote places in fear of getting spotted until you are strong enough to handle BHs who may come after you.
I do agree with many Jedi that acquiring visibility from same faction NPCs and PCs is a little harsh. I suppose the devs idea is that within your faction a Jedi will acquire fame (recall in SW people seemed not to believe in Jedi) and thus word will get out about the Jedi and thus get into imperial hands.. But who knows...
Neutral Imperial Agent
Lone-
Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:55 am
#97
bah this pants when i first started going for jedi all that time ago i thought this will be great ! glowy sticks ! force lighting ! but now 
all it does for me is look prettyHaveing more funto my 2nd character to have a differant species ! !
all it does for me is look prettyHaveing more funto my 2nd character to have a differant species ! ! maybe i should go bh they seem to be the favs hehe
Ratken
Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:55 am
#98
Aanu wrote:
Bishop_76 wrote:
I think what people need to think about here is that the Dev's want Jedi hard to play and hard to level. If visibility is made to be easier to avoid and thus making Jedi easier to level, then it is my concern that Jedi will get more ability or power nerfs. This is the reason I believe the new xp loss was put in.....you can either take xp losses or take nerfs. I would rather take the xp loss because if they nerf powers/abilities down, what fun would it be to play a Jedi when you could just be a swordsman instead?
Also, I am not advocating Jedi being able to destroy 20 man groups, but I thinka Knight should be able to stand up to3 well played PC's or 5 poorly played ones.Coming from EQ, Iwould also think that BHers who like a challenge would like to takle a stronger character because in essence it is likehaving a raid on aPC character.
My sentiments exactly.
The visibility system stated here seems fair to me. A LS is the weapon of the Jedi and equipping one should give you visibility.
Seems like the Jedi are being forced to keep it on the down low which is precisly the way it should be. You should be leveling in remote places in fear of getting spotted until you are strong enough to handle BHs who may come after you.
I do agree with many Jedi that acquiring visibility from same faction NPCs and PCs is a little harsh. I suppose the devs idea is that within your faction a Jedi will acquire fame (recall in SW people seemed not to believe in Jedi) and thus word will get out about the Jedi and thus get into imperial hands.. But who knows...
For me, as a jedi playing char, visibility was never the issue. Even more now that I have confirmation that every humanoid in game gives me visibility; I'll just avoid them even more.
Not even the exp that I will lose from a bh db.
The big issue is the -200k exp every time I clone from gang squads, pvp and the occasional solo BH (kudos to the last ones), the fact that several bh can have my mission and get killed by them a few minutes after I clone, the fact that that I gain visibility even when I kill the bh (but I guess for those that compare swg with real world or the movies the bh as a corpse managed to pick up his mobile and call the emperor on me) in the middle of nowhere and last and last but not least the -10mil cap on exp.
Granted, death in pve should result in losing exp and imho if you die in pve while you grind a jedi you did something very wrong and kind off deserve the penalty.
But losing exp from pvp is completely wrong (does NOT include bh with me as their mission). Just this fact is forcing me to keep on grinding +30mil exp without doing anything else; and no I refuse to "go play another char". Noone, not even soe can tell me what char to play as long as I pay the subscription fee.
Narz
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:09 am
#99
plonger wrote:
JustG,
Could you please explain why after the penalty of gaining too much visability has been delivered via bounty hunter DB, why that penalty can still be given over and over? No where else in this game do you get penalized more than once for being on the wrong side, for instance stormtrooper searches only occur once and you don't get searched over and over all day.
I think the large xp losses would be much easier to swallow if I knew I could try to regain some of it back without fear of dropping even further into the hole if some other BH comes after me in an hour.
No kidding. I logged on and fired up my alt doc/entertainer. I healed all my BF, then my wounds and started to get buffed. then I afked for 5 minutes and came back to find 5 different BH outside with my mission waiting for me to come out. Oh holy hell! I just got smoked like 5 hours earlier and was chased by a 2nd BH while just after getting rezzed! A BH was even begging me to step outside for just a quick sec. lol!Of course I switched to my alt, which is becoming a dead horse getting several beatings (I guess 3 weeks of beatings before I can hunt again) and a BH asked my alt if they knew my Jedi. I was like nope. He was like damn! And said that now BH are taking all the easy Jedi missions to stack up exps for FS, which I would drop BH and grind something else personally, but it made me realise this is the latest trend: Smoke Padawans with a few boxes, corpse camp [I think they fixed it now only because how often Jedi get hunted now] just for some exps to convert.
Anyways thought someone would find this post at least half amusing or helpful.
P.S. I think what I did to get on terminals so fast was I was too close to a Janta (who could understand what they were speaking in the first place). As by too close, don't know because they didn't say what the limit to witness things were. I think that if you can see them on your radar you are screwed. Even though they don't actually "see" you because I know if they had they would have ran over and smacked me around because I have -5000 Janta exps. Go Figure.
Azhi_Dahaka
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:16 am
#100
It seems to me the real source of the problems in the visibility system lie in the Jedi versus BH fighting ability, and the BH ability to enlist gank squaks that could even include other Jedi. I personally would have no problem with the visibility system and the extreme Jedi XP loss if gank squads could not be used to grief Jedi's. At the same time, I can respect a true Master BH's issues of facing any xxx4 LS skill Jedi or higher. Granted, melee stackers will kick the crap out of my Jedi (not even a close contest), but a Master BH who is obviously ranged based is little threat to me by himself since I can block the vast majority of his shots. I can understand how a MBH spec'd out the way SOE intended them to be, would get frustrated hunting Jedi and turn to friends to help them get their mark ..... of course that also opens up the option for pure griefers and make no mistake about it, the BH/GTEF system with zero loss versus massive loss and repeat kill loss against Jedi is about the worst griefer enabling system I have ever seen. Others have said it .... an in-game experience being "hard" is vastly different than simply being "griefed". Right now, particularly with gank squads, taking the same mission over and over, and TEF clearing issues, it is a system that is simply a griefer's paradise.
I think it needs to be a BH versus a Jedi, simple as that. Of course, for that to be viable, BH's would have to be given specific skills to help them be an even match for a Jedi. I also think BH's should be restricted in the type of Jedi missions they can get based on their strength and the Jedi's. Jedi names should not be given in the mission until the final stage of tracking to prevent specific griefing or now with the new rewards, double account mission credit exploiting. Groups should NOT be allowed to help the BH unless of course the mark is an overtmember of a faction. For that to be fair to the BH's though, they would need Jedi specific fighting skills. Perhaps they get saber block breaking mods as they go up their WEAPON lines (no more 3000 BH/Stackers) to counter the very high Saber block Jedis get as they move up their weapon line. Maybe give BH access to saber resistant armor at roughly the scale of stun resistant armor. Basically, give a BH a fair chance to win a 1 vs 1 fight against a Jedi and get rid of the group gank crap. If that could be done, the visibility system is fine and the xp loss to BH's is fine. I can happily accept BH fights as I try to level up, but I can't stand the gank squads that bring 15 people, including a couple of CM's (which are bs as most know) and a couple of Dark Jedi for my less than half developed Jedi.
As far as continuity arguments against Jedi or anything else in thegame ... In my opinion, they hold little water simply because there are LOTS of things in this game that don't follow the continuity of the movies. For example, there was officially no such thing as a Dark Jedi and there were certainly not lots of them running around. There were 2 Sith Lords, but never any Dark Jedi. They ceased to be Jedi when they became a Sith Lord ... and there was NEVER more than 2. Obviously, that does not work for a game like this, so SOE rightfully threw movie continuity by the wayside to provide the possbility of multiple opposing faction Jedi. I agree with that. At the same time, the very defining aspect of Star Wars that sets it apart from the run of the mill laser gun space setting stories are the Jedi and theiruniqueweapon. It is no surprise that a ton of people that play this game, started it with the hope of beinga Jedi in mind. I understand that the continuity of the story did not include many Jedi, but then again, I don't recall anyone kicking the crap out of a Jedi in any of the movies like melee stackers can do in this game. The point is, continuity is absolutely nojustification for any decision on a profession or aspect of this game when that same concept of sticking to continuity is not and really cannot reasonably be applied across the board.
In short, make BH's a real threat to Jedi on a 1 on 1 basis, restrict BH missions to only be 1 on 1 fights to be fair to both sides, don't reveal Jedi names in the missions until the last step of tracking, and stop using "continuity" for only those things you don't want to explain. If those things would be done, I'd be more than content with the visibility and xp loss system as they stand now. I don't mind the excitement of possibly being hunted by a BH. The gank squad griefing makes me want to quit the game though.
dezerter
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:22 am
#101
all and all is a retarted idea of that multiple xps loss but that would b fine if the BHs would only b able to complete the Jedi missions only when they are solo that means without the supporting gank squad - theres this one on lowca that runs around coronet screaming-DOTs are for noobs but then he doesnt go aftr the smalest padawan without a CM sidekick at least and usually its more than just 1 sidekick -- my what a hero ...... so take away the group from BH when going aftr Jedi and the ods shall b a bit evened out at least for those "mighty" Jedi who just got lightsaber novice.......other than that the whole idea is still pretty retarted and im certain none of the devs or staff or whoever the ppl creating and/or operating this whole thing are have never tried to play a little padawan noob on the life server and You should btw wheres the combat rebalance....oh i forget - SOEs too cheap to hire more manpower to work on things that been screwed up since forever ....cheers.
Sorak20
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:30 am
#102
Am just dreaming of the day when a little box pops up as a jedi is showboating saying "would you like to report *insert player name* to the imperial authorities as a force wielding insrgent" or something like that. Would solve a lot of problems jedi could hunt with their friends, but if they started showing off in public areas they would end up on the terms very fast.
Players should be allowed to make their own decisions wether to report a jedi and not have their choice made up for them by soe
Itren
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:33 am
#103
JustG wrote:"Equipping a lightsaber
right.. so.. Either Jedi die, or we're on the terms, and then get killed, YAY!
I tested this the other day.. without my lightsaber, took a master swordsman with a decent powerhammer four swings of headhit 3 to kill me while I was full up on brandy, muon and canape. Said master swordsman also has the melee speed FS line. Four seconds. Four seconds and I lay on the ground without a head, so to speak. So it's either I die super fast to a melee hybrid BH, or I get visibility wracked up by carrying my saber because I NEED it to survive a hit.
ACiDXiAN
Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:43 am
#104
I realize some will say hey shut up noob to what I am posting but oh well.
I have been playing since April and have enjoyed the game up until recently. I was lucky enough to get a good run of professions done (taking away my playability for the grind which is MY fault not anyone elses) BUt I chose that path and paid my monies so I coudl do as the box said, even become a Jedi. Which I was able to obtain after the P10 patch.
I am not going to complain about the XP penalties, the BH marks or the fact we (as Jedi) seem to be getting the short end of a pointy stick right in the keister.What I am goignt o mention however is what I think is flawed and out of touch with the fun of the game.
I will state the problem I see, and a short solution that would appease ME (not necessarily you).
1.the visibility system is seriously fubar'd (we all see this as Jedi). Now I know this game is notthe movie, nor has it been intended to be, but for the love of Pete, something has to be adjusted about the current system. Luke waved his glowstick around Leia, Han, Chewie, R2, 3PO, most of the rebellion knew they had a jedi on their side, Vader even 'felt him' yet I dont believe oncedid I see the WANTED dead or alive on Luke like we have, the only one who jammed on them was Lando and he did it to save his own ass, not because he wanted to be a stoolie. I am pretty sure that no one in the rebellion or who saw him practice on the Millenium Falcon reported him when he was training and learning, but then again I never trusted that little green bugger on Dagobah, I bet HE squealed on Luke since he knew he would be absorbed into the force anyhow in the next episode.
Grouping should not increase my visibility. The way it is now is fine except for the fact you shoudl not generate visibility from your own group members. If another Imperial/Rebel sees you it should be the 1/4 visibility but in a group your group members should generate ZERO visibility for you.
One the thing is if an NPC sees you I think if they are killed they should only create 1/4 the visibility as well.For example I am out hunting and a Mauler Accolyte spawns next to me, he sees me with my glowstick (for ease of sake 1 point of visi is generated), I see him and kill him, only .25 would be generated. Now this may make it more complicated for the programmers etc but it would only seem fair that a dead NPC cant squeal to the Empire/Rebels about you to make you more visible, while someone who has been engaged, or seen you and ignored coudl easily be bougth off to squeal.
2. the fact that when as a BH if you kill me you deserve a reward (your bounty). If I evade you OR kill you I get nothing but another 10 of you monkeys all gankin me, then when I die I not only get whacked once with the ugly stick, I get smacked down and driven to the pit of the sarlacc itself where I may as well let myself be digested for a thousand years, because it may take me that long to make the XP back. New Jedi have ZERO defense against jedi death squads. We can't get our guilds to help us, we can have other jedi help us, and the glowstick does such piss poor damage to start with that nunas beat the hell outta us until we can get 3/4 of a million Jedi XP at 125xp a kill.
There has to be a limit on how much you can be hunted, if 10 BH take me as a bounty, and ONE of them whacks me I think they should all be informed the mark has been terminated and all current bounties on that mark are null, and I shoudl be removed from the terminals, visibility should be HALVED of what it is at the time of death (so if you insist on running around with your glowstickits easier to get terminaled next time), but this way you have been penalized, and the choice will be yours to be LESS or more visible in the next little while.
3. Bounty and XP penalty is a little messed up as well. Someone who fights in the backwoods of Yavin 4 creates less visibility over time than someone who runs around Theed screaming "I am a jedi woot!", however the bounty on these people is the same and the experience smack is equal as well. If visibility is number based (1-100 or whatever) then would it not be smarter to base the bounty on the visibility of the Jedi being hunted, not he amount of skills that Jedi has used. This would eliminate the double probelm of BH knowing how many people to party up with, and it woudl also make more visible jedi (knights and such) a greater threat than a padawan and so forth.
4. Bugs are abound and do not favor the Jedi. The warping mouse bomb is well known and was used on a friend of mine yesterday in our own city, not once not twice but THREE times but 3 different BH groups. While this has been set down as an exploit and bannable offense according to SOE, a CSR was notified and was quoted as saying (paraphased as I dont have the transcript handy) Jedi is a tough life, you chose to become one and the warping droid is not a high priority issue right now, and no experience loss will be reversed due to this bug, live with it.
Now I am sickened by this attitude, this coming from the same people who have been accused int he past of flagrantly abusing their powers, taking bribes, or ignoring any requests for proper help due to a player as is. I have had my run in with CSR's and I can say some are and have been great and some have been real a-holes and the responses are disheartening to say the least at times.
What needs to be addressed however is the bugs that plague some of the key points of the game like the warping droids, being stuck on the terminals, and all the mentioned stuff alone in this thread for bugs.
Those are thebiggest issues I think everyone is having right now. Just take a look and see the suggestions. Some are good, some are bad, but overall I believe there could be a happy medium wth a FEW tweaks to the dubious patch we refer to as 10.3
Sorry its 7:30 am here so if any of this is incoherent I apologize and will edit as needed.
ACiD