Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Force Defender
MrDecipher wrote:
Something needs to be done about armour break. Non jedi can have their armor sliced for armour break reduction. either allow jedi robes to be sliced or give defender armour break reduction.
QFE
1. Master Box needs an Advanced version of Aura and Valor.
2. Avoid Incap, Aura, Valor all need to be on/off toggle like cloak and FR.
3. Avoid Incap has a huge hole. You get knocked down near the end of its 30 sec life and while down you get pounded and your out. If AI had a toggle, this would be taken care of.
MsNiL wrote:
Defender issues
Ah... Defender... the black sheep of the Jedi community. Not only are they 'made' good by a flaw in the non-revamped design by having the only armor/defense, they do not even have enough defense themselves... and their skillset isseverly limited.
More than any discipline a Defender needs attention.They need to be upgraded to fit in the CU system just like Pikeman/TKA was.
The following are my ideas for Force Defender in a possible revamp.
Issues:
1. Role: "Tank"; Mind Dominate is underpowered
2. Avoid Incap is too vulnerable against mezzes.
3. Defender's do not have enough defense to rely on it in combat.
4. Force Defense and State Defense needs attention.
5. Defender is a limited/boring/pointless discipline.
Role: "Tank"; Mind Dominate is underpowered
Non-Defenders cannot rely on a Defender to tank right now, becouse Mind Dominate is not reliable. Mind Dominate needs to be seriously improved in power, to make sure a Defender definitely can keep a foe's attention. I also suggest to add an Area Dominate in the Master Box.
Avoid Incap is too vulnerable
Make a Jedi with Avoid Incap immune against all mezzes. Come-on! They are snared already!
Defender's do not have enough defense to rely on it in combat
No way in heaven a Master Defender can tank Ancient Krayt Dragons and other super pve opponents like a non-Jedi can! Not even in pvp their defenses are near enough.
Issues:
a) Defender must rely on Heal 4000 to upkeep their role.
b) Defender are extremely vulnerable against armorbreak.
c) Defender do not have enough Defense.
d) Defender are 'made' good by a flaw in the non-revamped design, not by CU design.
Suggestions:
a) Implement tailor-made Jedi robe's which grant all Jedi +4000 Armor (this robe may decay as armor).
b) Now makeInnate Armor immune or partially immune against Armor Break!
c) Give each discipline skillset 100-200 defense, where Defender templates should max out at around 300-350 defense (not counting Aura) and non Defender max out around 200-250 defense. Note that with Aura this means 800-850 defense for defender's.
b) Read my suggestions in the bottom for "completing" the Force Defender as Tank's, thanks to tanking abilities.
Force Defense and State Defenses need attention
Force Defense
... is currently overpowered. Force Wielder's needs a proper way to breach through Defender defenses, not having their powers reduced like that. A Force Defender and Force Wielder needs to make equal in combat.
Jedi State Defense
... do not protect against all new CU states such as Thyroid Rapture, Binding Strike, Warning Shot etc.
Defender is a limited/boring/pointless discipline
Theese are suggested Post-CU abilities to make Force Defender real Combat Upgrade Jedi "Tanks" without being hated by everyone.
Area Dominate
As mentioned in '1'.
Force Push/Pull
Allow a Defender to "push"/"pull" enemies. Force Push can be used to push an enemy away from him to halt them from attacking him in melee. A more important ability is to allow a Defender toForce Pull an enemy close to him. Force Pull is best used when Rooted or Snared (perhaps when using "Avoid Incap"). Force Pull ensures that a Defender is not a sitting duck in combat, and even allows for pvp tanking, removing opposing players who is currently attacking his weaker friends.
An alternative is to make Mind Dominate work on other players...
Nice idea
Where would this go? Maybe force-pull has a chance of unequiping their currently equipped weapon forcing them to re-equip it. (Doesn't work on lightsabers).
Force of Will
A Defender needs a way to quickly recover from Incapacitated State, especially when combined with A.I. To be the one who do not stay down fits the role as Defender. This is also a counter to the rather tricky "Daze the A.I guy" tactic.
What would the penalties be though upon failure or partial sucess? Maybe failure +20 seconds to incap timer and partial sucess slight 15second groggyness in all Ham Regen. Where would this ability go?
WarCry
Give Force Defender's a WarCry ability that temporary reduces the opponents attack speed, slowing down their damage output. This is to be used while tanking.
Very true, Pikemen get it to assume their tank role i can't see anything wrong aslong as it doesn't stack with any other types of warcrys. Be a very welcomed addition, i do belive this is a pretty powerful ability however...at the risk of sounding selfish i do think an ability with this power should be a Master box placement. Where would this ability go?
Force Valor
Allow Force Valor to reflect bolts instead of blocking them (25% to reflect). At least when they are standing still. This ensures that a rooted Defender is not a sitting duck.
I agree 100%! Lightsaber block should +Reflect+ damage if a sucessful block is made. Not only defender but for Lightsaber too!
Area Stun
Allow a Defender an instant area daze for a very short duration (5 seconds). This gives enough time to react, such as start up forcepowers, heal or do other things.
Cool, i don't think it would be very neccisary but cool non the less.
Message Edited by SITHDUKE on 07-29-2005 07:34 PM
In my opinion:
- Master Defenders's Defenses are almost 2nd to a TKA Master w/ COB and Swords Dance running. We are Master Defenders, we are Jedi, we should be the best at tanking. Same reasoning applies to Jedi Healing as well.
- Aura in xx4x Needs to be nerfed, and make an improved version of it at Master Defender. We need to put an end to all of the templates that pick up one line and actually be viable w/ it. (ex. cloak).Jedi that recieve all the bonuses of Defender from one line.
- Area Taunt, and actually increase the range of dominate mind.
- Take out cool down timer on Aura.
I'd go as far as raising the protection cap from 60% to something higher, so dabbling in Force Armor + Master Defender is a better tank than just a Master Defender. As the diminishing returns formula stands, there's no point to have them in conjuction.
msnill is going to kick me between the legs for this
Avoid Incap: Remove the snare effect. Force cost is fine. Why?
I use Avoid Incap for one reason mainly, and that's to escape my foe(s). I don't want to die, so i slam that on and run away. Or I used to. Now i'm unable to escape. I don't have Force Run, so i'm not able to counter the snare.
Dominate Mind: We need another power of this that's for Area dominate. I would like the choice between using an Area dominate and a Single target dominate.
Other than that, i'm totally happy with the Defender side of the Jedi profession. It's working perfectly. Thank you
Lots of great input here.. I agree that Defender requires attention, IT'S NOT FINE AS IS
First off, there are things that are broken or don't make sense:
1. Dominate mind is too weak, strenghtening it won't hurt anyone
2. State resists don't seem to do anything
3. No counter measure against AB
4. AI doesn't make much sense. Therefore, in conjunction with #3, MDef doesn't make much sense.
On top of that, there are creatiev ideas to make Defender not as dull as ti is right now. MsNiL's post covers a lot of ground on that. Personally, I like the area DM idea.
erything as is, but we need ARMOR BREAK RESISTANCE AT MASTER
Baciacca wrote:
Focus Thread: Force Defender
Ok here it is for all of you Defenders. Lets here what needs to be added, fixed, and/or changedin your Discipline.
Message Edited by Baciacca on 07-29-2005 07:00 AM