Jedi Archive

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JaGid_Shadows wrote:

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MsNiL wrote:

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Rebel-head wrote:
So if Jedi heal better than Doctors, where does that leave those none-Jedi who wish to play a support role in the group? They may as well just grind a double master combat template if Jedi can do all the work of a Doc bar revive. No profession should be negated in this game that is why Doctors should be the alpha healers. Jedi get a little bit of everything and then all the extras, heck they even use Rifle weapons to good effect.

I know alot of people would like the Jedi trees to be split into seperate professions but as it stands they are not. It is one profession with several trees. That's the whole beauty of Jedi, it's so versatile and they can perform almost any role on the battle-field. they should never, however demote a dedicated profession to second best in it's discipline.

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So if Jedi heal worse than Doctors, where does that leave thoose Jedi who wish to play a support role in the group? They may as well just grind a double master combat template if Doctors can do all the work of a Healer including revive and augment. No profession should be negated in this game, that is why Healers should be at least equal Doctors. Doctor get a little bit of everything and then all the extras, heck they can even become a Rifleman to good effect.

I know alot of people who do not understand that each Jedi tree costs about as much as an ordinary separate profession and give the same bonuses. The whole beautify with the Jedi, is that they must choose which role they want to perform on the battle-field. They should never, however, be less suited for their role than a regular non-Jedi profession that plays the same role.

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This isa beautifully executed retort. You are my new role-model for the "they don't realizetheir Jedi hatred is blinding them" posters. Your response made me smile and laugh! Good response!

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Who is really blind? The one who thinks every none-Jedi is a Jedi-hater or all the people he accuses? I am in no way a Jedi-hater, some of my best friends in-game are Jedi. I am simply offereing my opinions. Just because they are different to yours doesn't make me a blind Jedi-hater. It is you who sounds full of hatred for non-Jedi from my point of view.

That response, however clever it appeared to be was flawed as it simply doesn't work the other way round. But I've already talked about that so I'll leave it.

Rebel-head, buddy... You simply don't know what you are talking about.

My best friend's toon is Master Doctor / Master Bounty Hunter. He can buff my group and keep us healthy.

My character CAN USE THE FORCE. My character now sucks so bad the vacuum from it pulled his toenails into his mouth. Play a Jedi before you pretent to know what they have done to us.

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GiladSunitek wrote:

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Rebel-head wrote:

So if Jedi heal better than Doctors, where does that leave those none-Jedi who wish to play a support role in the group? They may as well just grind a double master combat template if Jedi can do all the work of a Doc bar revive. No profession should be negated in this game that is why Doctors should be the alpha healers. Jedi get a little bit of everything and then all the extras, heck they even use Rifle weapons to good effect.

I know alot of people would like the Jedi trees to be split into seperate professions but as it stands they are not. It is one profession with several trees. That's the whole beauty of Jedi, it's so versatile and they can perform almost any role on the battle-field. they should never, however demote a dedicated profession to second best in it's discipline.

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Ok Rebel, let me ask you a nice simple question, when you look at your skill sheet and see ...

Unarmed 1-Unarmed 2-Unarmed 3-Unarmed 4

One-Handed 1-One-Handed 2-One-Handed 3-One-Handed 4

Novice Brawler Two-Handed 1-Two-Handed 2-Two-Handed 3-Two-Handed 4 Master Brawler

Polearms 1-Polearms 2-Polearms 3-Polearms 4

Is this a profession tree? If so then look, if you can for Force Healing in that list. Jedi is not a profession it is a set of professions, Lightsaber, Force Defense, Force Enhancement, Force Wielder and Force Healing. Now most combat based elite professions get the kinds of bonuses that Jedi would get had they been given access to all the sub-professions that they choose from. Instead Jedi are limited by having to make a choice of what 2.5 Jedi professions or disciplines they wish to take.

Healing is a profession much like Doctor is so why should the two be any different in capability. CM's have as good healing as Doctors so why are Doctors not asking to nerf them?

Could the answer simply be Jedi Envy? Or could it be because Jedi rarely charge (if at all) for heals thereby making a Doctors only way of making money be buffs?

Message Edited by GiladSunitek on 07-04-200512:19 AM

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JaGid_Shadows wrote:

Rebel-head, buddy... You simply don't know what you are talking about.

My best friend's toon is Master Doctor / Master Bounty Hunter. He can buff my group and keep us healthy.

My character CAN USE THE FORCE. My character now sucks so bad the vacuum from it pulled his toenails into his mouth. Play a Jedi before you pretent to know what they have done to us.

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Rebel-head wrote:

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GiladSunitek wrote:

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Rebel-head wrote:

So if Jedi heal better than Doctors, where does that leave those none-Jedi who wish to play a support role in the group? They may as well just grind a double master combat template if Jedi can do all the work of a Doc bar revive. No profession should be negated in this game that is why Doctors should be the alpha healers. Jedi get a little bit of everything and then all the extras, heck they even use Rifle weapons to good effect.

I know alot of people would like the Jedi trees to be split into seperate professions but as it stands they are not. It is one profession with several trees. That's the whole beauty of Jedi, it's so versatile and they can perform almost any role on the battle-field. they should never, however demote a dedicated profession to second best in it's discipline.

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Ok Rebel, let me ask you a nice simple question, when you look at your skill sheet and see ...

Unarmed 1-Unarmed 2-Unarmed 3-Unarmed 4

One-Handed 1-One-Handed 2-One-Handed 3-One-Handed 4

Novice Brawler Two-Handed 1-Two-Handed 2-Two-Handed 3-Two-Handed 4 Master Brawler

Polearms 1-Polearms 2-Polearms 3-Polearms 4

Is this a profession tree? If so then look, if you can for Force Healing in that list. Jedi is not a profession it is a set of professions, Lightsaber, Force Defense, Force Enhancement, Force Wielder and Force Healing. Now most combat based elite professions get the kinds of bonuses that Jedi would get had they been given access to all the sub-professions that they choose from. Instead Jedi are limited by having to make a choice of what 2.5 Jedi professions or disciplines they wish to take.

Healing is a profession much like Doctor is so why should the two be any different in capability. CM's have as good healing as Doctors so why are Doctors not asking to nerf them?

Could the answer simply be Jedi Envy? Or could it be because Jedi rarely charge (if at all) for heals thereby making a Doctors only way of making money be buffs?

Message Edited by GiladSunitek on 07-04-200512:19 AM

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I wondered where your question was it is a good job you posted further down!

I understand how silly it is to have 5 trees for one profession. I do not agree with that but it is slightly removed from the points I'm trying to make. Jedi Healers should be able to fight/defend better that is something cannot deny. Master Doctors can pick up a whole other profession and fight well, and so should Jedi Healers be able to. Unfortunatly this is not the case and maybe one day it will change for th ebetter. What I believe in, though, is the basic principle that a Doctor should be the leading healer in a group. That is all I'm trying to say.

Lastly, Doctors don't tend to make any money at all these days as all the crafting has been moved to Medic and Bio-Engineer. Plus I can't talk much about making money as I've never been a money-making Doctor.

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Master doctors can pick up enough of other professions to make them a pretty decent combatant, but of course not one as one who focuses solely on combat. Doctor has heal states, health, rez, and buffs. Healer has heal states and health heals, and nowhere near as good as doctor ones are. So how is this compeltely outing doctors? You'll still be just as needed as before, how many Master Healers do you think are in your galaxy?

And as for money, no need to even talk about that here, i dont seem to be gaining any more money as a Master Healer(insert profession here) than a doctor.

Rebel-head, I digress... I do agree that Doctors should never become outmoded.

However, a Jedi Healer can not buff. The combat speed buff off Doctor is HUGE. The other buffs help nicely, although not tremendously. Doctors can resuscitate. Jedi healers can't.

Jedi Healers USE UP FORCE to heal, and that should grant them bonuses. Lets say I use my right arm to lift an object. Then lets say I start using my other arm to lift too. Should the added force lift better? This is the same with using the Force. The force should add extra power to the healing. So your Doctor can do, one-handed, what a Jedi can not do with 2.

Doctor will never be outmoded as long as smart fighters realize what they can do for their groups. I think perhaps you don't realize the true power of Doctor. My Jedi is about 2x as powerful when my Doctor friend is grouped with me. That is a big deal. My group is maybe 10% more powerful witha Jedi Healer along these days. And that's not right.

You may not realize that Jedi Healer is a skill that gives no other bonuses. A Doc even gets some defenses and such. Jedi don't. It is a pure specialization.

(Edited to fix the spelling of "to" to "too")

Message Edited by JaGid_Shadows on 07-03-2005 04:44 PM

The point here is that Docs, and even a single line in Doc can out heal a Jedi Healer. A jedi healer is no longer affective healing groups and is lucky if he can keep himself alive.

To those of you that are not JediI say this: Take off your armor and try healing with a 6 second timer and no Doc skills at all. Oh, and here is an average at best weapon to fight back with. Oh look, here comes a group of guys that you can not attack but they can attack you at will.

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MsNiL wrote:

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BDragon wrote:
I have a question MsNiL, do you kno any MLS with 700+ sabers? I would love to do this testing myself, but i dont know a single master healer. Im interested to see if MHealer has enough healing DPS to keep up with MLS damage. If they cant, then we have 1 of two situations.

1: Jedi are intended to have defence AND healing to survive damage output
2: Jedi are not intended to out-heal damage

I really would like to know which it is, for the sake of other Jedi out there...

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If you are hit by a MLS with a 700 lightsaber who swaps Head Hit + Leg Hit you will take 2296 damage in 6 seconds, using 20% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Total Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for 1 minute and 12 seconds. After that your force is drained.

A MDef/4000 who do the same will take 1363 damage in 6 seconds, using 52,5% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Force Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for 4 minutes and 48 seconds. After that your force is drained.

So it's just a question about how long your force last. A large heal is always more expensive than a low heal.

Now lets assume forcecost for Total Heal was reduced to 10 base cost.
If you are hit by a MLS with a 700 lightsaber who swaps Head Hit + Leg Hit you will take 2296 damage in 6 seconds, using 20% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Total Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for 2 minutes and 48 seconds. After that your force is drained.

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Just came across this and wanted to throw another log on the "fix healer fire"

Julio Torres thinks the Holy Combat Necromancer is THE alpha class we ALL saw in the movies!

nice post, i hope they'll balance the jedi profession

Great Post MsNil. I of course am a big advocate that Healer needs to be seriously looked at. Since the CU hit all medical abilities are now akin to force powers, without the force cost. If We are to have such a long-term stat to manage like force, we need comparibly lower force costs, higher effiacy of our powers and some way to boost our regen in the same way that foods boost action and mind.

(shameless plug) My post on a Master Healer revamp is trying to tackle some of these issue. And needs more constructive input. Link attached to my signiature.

It's time the least played profession in the game took a stand for their rights to be a useful profession.

Vive la healer revolution!

I am a Wookiee Master Healer - how gimped am I?

Regards,

BR