Jedi Archive
Thread: Official list of common Jedi Board Misconceptions
We have zero solid evidence of the person getting another hint.
And even if this did remarkably happen, who can't say its a bug, or something else random. We've got hundreds and hundreds of people posting data that corresponds to the 4+1 theory, then you are ready to trash it from a half-assed response from a guy who claims to have gotten more than four hints?
4+1 is a theory. The wording in the jedi forum FAQ I put together says it pretty clearly:
Q1: How do I become a jedi / unlock my force sensative slot?
A1: The current theory is that you must master 5 specific professions randomly assigned to your character at creation. This is generally referred to as the 4+1 theory, as holocrons will hint on up to four of the professions, leaving one more (+1) to be mastered without a hint. We've yet to see solid proof (or even solid accounts) of people mastering less than four total professions before their holocrons go silent. The empirical evidence points to a system where people can get up to four hints from holocrons, with a further constraint that the holocrons will never hint on the 5th profession (i.e. the profession which unlocks).
And no one is really saying "there are no patterns". There are all sorts of patterns. You can find at least one pattern in any series of numbers, and usually several patterns. But what we're really saying is there are no discernable predictive patterns i.e. no one has found any sort of patterns that will help predict what the next profession to master should be.
This is also reflected in the FAQ:
Q9: Is there a pattern to the profession hints that a holocron gives you? Is there any way to figure out your hidden 5th profession?
A9: At this time, no one has found a pattern or combination of patterns to help find the 5th slot. The statistical data shows that at the time of this writing, the only "known" way to open your FSCS is to master 5 pre-specified professions. There is zero solid evidence to date of any patterns or hints in game to help open your FSCS. In fact, logically speaking there is very little reason for a pattern or a hint to exist at this time (the devs coding in a discernable pattern would make it MUCH easier to unlock the slot once the pattern was . The statistical data strongly confirms the 4+1 theory with zero solid evidence of any patterns or hints in game.
The universe is pure order, thus there is no chaos without order first creating it, making the chaos a form of order. I.E. Random number generator in a computer has a seed and a formula, thus it is ordered. My guess is that if the order of professions is random then you need to figure out what the seed was (most likely the time and date in some form) on the computer your character was created on and the formula that was used to create the random professions. Once you have those variables you wil know precisly what professions to master.
So there technically is a pattern. 
Lowca_Fatal wrote:1) 4+1 Theory
Many people believe that you have 5 total professions you need to master. Holocrons keep telling you professions until you have one left, and that is your 'hidden' or 'silent' profession. Then, you need to random master professions until you unlock FSCS.
THIS THEORY IS UNTRUE
Someone recently used a 4th holocron. It told him COMBAT MEDIC. He had mastered 3 previous holocron professions. Frustrated with the outcome of the final holocron, he mastered other professions.
Then, wishing to continue on the path to Jedi, he used another holocron. IT WAS SILENT. This would mean, while mastering other professions, he found his 'hidden' profession. He then mastered Combat Medic, and recieved no FSCS.
WHAT THIS MEANS - There is a 4+X theory where X is greater than or equal to 1, there is other things besides profession masteries that matter, etc.
2) There is no pattern in Holocron Professions
THIS CAN NEVER BE PROVEN
You cannot prove something doesn't exist. You cannot prove there isn't life in any other galaxy, you cannot prove Iraq never had WMD's, and you cannot prove it is impossible to travel the speed of light.
Everything is just a mystery until it is found. The ONLY way you can prove ANYTHING is a statement from the Dev's themselves. The Dev's have NEVER stated there is no pattern anywhere, just that every person has a different way of reaching Jedi.
JUST BECAUSE A PATTERN HAS NOT BEEN DISCOVERED NOW, DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE.
There is no pattern until one is found. But, you CANNOT say there is no pattern. No one has proof there is none. Until the Dev's make a statement, this is just a rumor. So STOP insulting those who believe there IS a pattern. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.
So please, lets stop thread crapping and have EVERYONE assume 4+1 which isn't true, and have everyone assume everything is random. These are both false.
Boom!
Lowca. Calm yourself.
While the 4+1 theory has not been proven, it does sit nicely with the data we have. I think most of us would like to see more than a word of mouth counterexample to drop it. At any rate Let me ask you this:
We all want to open our slot. If the 4+1 theory is proven false, based upon your counterexample, can you provide us with any useful direction beyond using 4 holos and mastering professions. Keep in mind that this is what is currently opeining slots. You just shouting or do you have something useful for us?
Now to the patterns. This forum is filled to the brim with folks asking what to do next after their holos are silent. If a master pistoleer/ Master CH has a silent holo, and he starts looking for patterns, he will likely get suggestions that he drop those useful combat skills for something unrelated. And he will be doing this because of an UNPROVEN pattern theory. What I suggest is that he would be better off to use those pistol skills to first master related professions before he give them up. Smuggler and BH will go a LOT quicker this way.
Both your statments may be true. But they are rather pointless and unhelpful. There may be patterns, but until you fiind one that works, you do no one any good.
In fact I wold like to ask you directly. Our hypothetical Master Pistoleer /Master CH has a silent holo. Suppose his pattern points to Doctor. You saying he should really drop all that and master doctor? Does he have ANY reason to believe that this will open his slot more quickly than using his combat skills to help master more related professions? If the next pattern suggested says Chef, should he really drop master medic before doing combat medic?
So you have direct answers to what I asked on this and the other thread? Or are you gonna shout some more?
--Thummp
A random number generator that seeds off of fan noise is pretty damned random. Or do you think you can predict fan noise? Besides, usually we use the term 'sufficiently random'. Which means you can mimin the fan noise with forum posts, but it still won't reliably tell you how to unlock the slot.
--Thummp
You are proving randomness in nature, and that is exactly not what Albion was talking about. In computers, programming, etc...random number generatorsMUST start with a given string. You cannot get nothing from nothing, as computers can't think for themselves. They only do what we tell them to do. That given, they are not technically random... but they can provide enormous odds that make guessing seem impossible.. therefore given a "random" feel. So, you are correct in your particle example, as Albion is correct in his own example. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are comparing apples to hotdog buns.
Thummp wrote:
Albion. You could not be more wrong. Take a physics class and study how subatomic particles behave. Examine what happens when you try to determine the EXACT position of an electron at a certain point in time. Do a search on heisenberg.
A random number generator that seeds off of fan noise is pretty damned random. Or do you think you can predict fan noise? Besides, usually we use the term 'sufficiently random'. Which means you can mimin the fan noise with forum posts, but it still won't reliably tell you how to unlock the slot.
--Thummp
Lowca_Fatal wrote:
2) There is no pattern in Holocron Professions
THIS CAN NEVER BE PROVEN
You cannot prove something doesn't exist. You cannot prove there isn't life in any other galaxy, you cannot prove Iraq never had WMD's, and you cannot prove it is impossible to travel the speed of light.
Everything is just a mystery until it is found. The ONLY way you can prove ANYTHING is a statement from the Dev's themselves. The Dev's have NEVER stated there is no pattern anywhere, just that every person has a different way of reaching Jedi.
JUST BECAUSE A PATTERN HAS NOT BEEN DISCOVERED NOW, DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE.
There is no pattern until one is found. But, you CANNOT say there is no pattern. No one has proof there is none. Until the Dev's make a statement, this is just a rumor. So STOP insulting those who believe there IS a pattern. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.
So please, lets stop thread crapping and have EVERYONE assume 4+1 which isn't true, and have everyone assume everything is random. These are both false.
This is not true. You CAN prove that it is random using a signficant size sample and college level statistics. Many people have done this (including myself and requested a friend verify my results) and posted to the boards. Just because you don't understand the math behind it doesn't mean it's not true.
The data posted to the boards shows that the professions ARE random.
Thummp wrote:
Lowca,
I am fascinated by how you and Albion have this need for determinism in your lives. You can't find a pattern, but because you believe there is one and because you will not accept otherwise, there MUST therefore be one. Albion insists that he can predict the weather. Literally. And you shout and scream about something you have never seen and cannot reproduce. What the heck is with you guys?
If there is a pattern, and you cannot find it, how does that help the silent holocroners to know what to master next? Do all their identical posts asking for guidence make this forum a better place? Are we getting any closer to opening our slots? Until you find this elusive pattern would it not behoove holocroners to master professions in a logical order rather than "randomly" stabbing at what they hope fits a pattern? Do you dare to answer?
I am beginning to honestly resent you because of how closely you resemble the priests of old, promising salvation if only the lost believe what YOU tell them. You don't KNOW a damned thing.
--Thummp
Best. Post. Ever.
Now where is Lowca? Haven't seen him reply to this thread in a while...
Xader_Vartec wrote:
Exterminans77 wrote:
As far as the patterns go. Do we know for a fact a pattern doesn't exist? No.
Wrong. Your "belief" is not dependent on mathematics. The truth of the matter is that my friend (a graduate level math student) and I have run numbers on information posted to these boards and determined that it IS random.
Whether you believe in it or not does not change the fact that it is fact. You might not believe that the earth is round but that doesn't make it flat.
STATISTICS DON'T PROVE, THEY ANALYZE
If your friend was a REAL graduate level math student, he would not be that stupid.
Just because you analyze and find no pattern, does NOT mean you haven't tried a model that may work yet.
Did your friend get his degree of one of those TV do-it-yourself infomercials?