Jedi Archive
Thread: Spin Groups
Quiet420 wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
Atobe wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
I can't wait for the AoE nerf...its gonna be beautiful.
I don't normally resort to ad hominem attacks, but you really are a mean-spirited little nerf monkey, aren't you?Do you sit at home alone at night, gleefully rubbing your hands together anticipating how wonderful it will be when all your devious little schemes come to fruition?You really take the cake.
Are you really clueless enough to think that the players who are adept enough at this game to make great spin groups will even blink when they have to change their tactics? Those groups work because the players in them know what they are doing and work together. If they had to do it without a single AOE attack they would still be faster than the average grinding n00b who doesn't know what they are doing.
I've been in a lot of groups both AOE and non and the groups that are made up of players who are skilled and good at working together and have good leadership waltz through lairs because they don't waste time they just get the job done.
Your posts reek of elitism.
Oh noes! a blue glowy called me an elitest.
the good spin groups work because of ONE master defender/MLS.....currently it's possible to approach 1 mil Jedi xp an hour...I know this cause I've served as a spintank and handed people levels....it requires no cooperation...just some area attacks with broken or weak weapons to avoid the risk of anyone else pulling agro....the bottom line is I'm not at all against powergamers or maximum efficiency...but this is ridiculous...and we all know that it's not gonna last AT THIS PACE....so get over it.
yes, without Area's a group that works together can earn XP way quicker than we did....but it is a more rational rate ofadvancement...no problem with that.
they need to fix the laires that never self destruct no matter how many times you clear them and come back.
laires need to release mobs with random aggro to all individuals currently attacking the mobs from, and the laire.
Right I'm a blue glowie which means I put in a year and a half volunteering my time to make the game better instead of just sitting around talking about how "I had it hard so you should too" (<<--- Elitism in case you have trouble recognizing it)
First of all I agree that you shouldn't be able to farm lairs over and over again and I've never been in a group that did that. So thats a non issue I think for most people.
The MDef talking all the heat could change without any issue either. Go ahead spread the aggro around it would be better than only the tank and the healer taking it all anyway.
None of that makes a really good spin group. A good spin group is made up of players who are paying attention, making sure they keep each other healed (especially the healers and the damage dealers) and getting the lair done. None of that is dependant on AOE. The aoe does make it go faster but the same results could be done without it, it would be a little more time consuming but not really all that much.
Nothing about making it LONGER to grind makes you stronger.
Quiet420 wrote:
hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
SVX007 wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
OH please enough of this I had it hard bullsh!t already. Grinding is not hard it never has been. Its tedious and boring. anothing more than a time sink to make up for the lack of ability (for whatever reason) to come up with an inventive leveling system. You grinded the way that was avaialble to you and we grind the way that is avaialble to us. Neither were hard.
look...for the record...I was very vocal against both the group XP nerf, and the manner in which it was presented.
however, yes, grinding is a chore....but it is a necessity....unless we want to remove grinding entirely, and allow people to just pick their boxes and jump right in.
spin groups in the current form are counter to all reasonable, common sense game mechanics.it's not healthy given that the grind is supposed to be part of the game.
Quiet420 wrote:
SVX007 wrote:
OH please enough of this I had it hard bullsh!t already. Grinding is not hard it never has been. Its tedious and boring. anothing more than a time sink to make up for the lack of ability (for whatever reason) to come up with an inventive leveling system. You grinded the way that was avaialble to you and we grind the way that is avaialble to us. Neither were hard.
Quiet420 wrote:hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
look...for the record...I was very vocal against both the group XP nerf, and the manner in which it was presented.
however, yes, grinding is a chore....but it is a necessity....unless we want to remove grinding entirely, and allow people to just pick their boxes and jump right in.
spin groups in the current form are counter to all reasonable, common sense game mechanics.it's not healthy given that the grind is supposed to be part of the game.
SVX007 wrote:
mindspat wrote:
Skill advancment is likely to be governed viaa gated system which would be similar to pilot professions. This would create a need to actually _play_ the game and not (/joinggroup, /acceptMission, /spin, /spin, /spin, /rinse, /repeat)
I for one would _LOVE_ to see gated advancement which requires me to perform a difficult task to accomplish a certain skill required to advance me charater. It would also support the effort to "train" players in the actuall use of developing skill.
I would much rather have a built in leveling system somehting along the lines of pilot,but the thing about Jedi is you cant really "play" while you grind because doing so more than likely causes you to get VIS. People can call the grind system wahtever they want some right of passage or whatever,but in the end its just plain boring, Givie us (all of us) something to do while grinding add in rewards for our profession like Pilot does. Sure you cant remove grinding all together but at least supliment it with soemthing entertaining.
(what you point out is the problem with the current penalty system of exp loss - it's a terrible concept in todays game and needs to be replaced with a forceCost penalty modifier upon death)well...if your saying we should remove the grind and implement a quest based system, I would agree....but I think we both know that the truth of the matter is that in MMORPG's....you grind...and it is part of the game.
Atobe wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
SVX007 wrote:
OH please enough of this I had it hard bullsh!t already. Grinding is not hard it never has been. Its tedious and boring. anothing more than a time sink to make up for the lack of ability (for whatever reason) to come up with an inventive leveling system. You grinded the way that was avaialble to you and we grind the way that is avaialble to us. Neither were hard.
Quiet420 wrote:hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
look...for the record...I was very vocal against both the group XP nerf, and the manner in which it was presented.
however, yes, grinding is a chore....but it is a necessity....unless we want to remove grinding entirely, and allow people to just pick their boxes and jump right in.
spin groups in the current form are counter to all reasonable, common sense game mechanics.it's not healthy given that the grind is supposed to be part of the game.
What is the hell have you been smoking? "The grind is supposed to be part of the game" ??!!!!!!!
That is exactly why you don't get it. Do you actually think doing the same repetitive things over and over for months on end is a game?! It's a means to end, it is not the end, it's not even the middle, it's just the thrice-be-damned road.
Unbe-frakkin-lievable.
Durzel wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
hey, you know it's coming...I know it's coming...you don't want it to come because you want an easy path.....I never had an easy path, and it made me stronger.....you want to be stronger.....it's good for you...love it.
Atobe wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
I can't wait for the AoE nerf...its gonna be beautiful.
I don't normally resort to ad hominem attacks, but you really are a mean-spirited little nerf monkey, aren't you?Do you sit at home alone at night, gleefully rubbing your hands together anticipating how wonderful it will be when all your devious little schemes come to fruition?You really take the cake.
What the hell, I'm gonna feed the troll...
You must have a pretty short memory, do you not remember the furore over Publish 23 and the subsequent rollback?
Publish 23 "fixed" group XP, with the Devs even saying that people were gaining XP far faster than was originally intended. Solo XP was practically the same, so it defintitely wasn't a "global XP nerf" - it was a nerf directed at groups, probably specifically spin groups at the top of the XP grinding tree.
Then the whole forum caught on fire and suddenly "it was a mistake". It definitely wasn't a mistake them doing it, as they even said at the time that it was intended, and it took over a day for them to realise the extent of the backlash before they rolled it back.
They've already tried it once, I doubt they will do the same thing again without the same consequences. Not saying the current level of XP gain in groups is right or wrong, just stating the current state of affairs...
No the next attempt will be more focused on specific things rather than an all encompassing nerf. It also will be timed better instead of being released within days of a major PR announcement (Expansion) which marketing didn't want ruined with people complaining.
There probably are nerfs coming to some of the things that Quiet talks about. The mistake is to assume that you have to do a spin group a certain way. Having one MDef tanking for 7 other players who never take any damage isn't the only way to run a spin group. Probalby not even the most common way because finding a MDef willing to spend his nights doing that isn't all that easy. Most spin groups I've been in are just guys all working together to do the lair as quickly as they can with their skills .
look...I'm not gonna argue with you, but quite simply put....SPIN GROUP....if you take theSPIN out its a group...so if you have that group you described that's really doing all that stuff without the AOE...it is no longer a spin group....seriously, note the terminology SPIN.....being forced to do that above mentioned stuff as opposed to being able to coast DOES make you stronger, you get to know your template a little better, and every bit counts.
DocSavag wrote:
Oh noes! a blue glowy called me an elitest.
the good spin groups work because of ONE master defender/MLS.....currently it's possible to approach 1 mil Jedi xp an hour...I know this cause I've served as a spintank and handed people levels....it requires no cooperation...just some area attacks with broken or weak weapons to avoid the risk of anyone else pulling agro....the bottom line is I'm not at all against powergamers or maximum efficiency...but this is ridiculous...and we all know that it's not gonna last AT THIS PACE....so get over it.
yes, without Area's a group that works together can earn XP way quicker than we did....but it is a more rational rate ofadvancement...no problem with that.
they need to fix the laires that never self destruct no matter how many times you clear them and come back.
laires need to release mobs with random aggro to all individuals currently attacking the mobs from, and the laire.
Right I'm a blue glowie which means I put in a year and a half volunteering my time to make the game better instead of just sitting around talking about how "I had it hard so you should too" (<<--- Elitism in case you have trouble recognizing it)
First of all I agree that you shouldn't be able to farm lairs over and over again and I've never been in a group that did that. So thats a non issue I think for most people.
The MDef talking all the heat could change without any issue either. Go ahead spread the aggro around it would be better than only the tank and the healer taking it all anyway.
None of that makes a really good spin group. A good spin group is made up of players who are paying attention, making sure they keep each other healed (especially the healers and the damage dealers) and getting the lair done. None of that is dependant on AOE. The aoe does make it go faster but the same results could be done without it, it would be a little more time consuming but not really all that much.
Nothing about making it LONGER to grind makes you stronger.
Quiet420 wrote:
look...I'm not gonna argue with you, but quite simply put....SPIN GROUP....if you take theSPIN out its a group...so if you have that group you described that's really doing all that stuff without the AOE...it is no longer a spin group....seriously, note the terminology SPIN.....being forced to do that above mentioned stuff as opposed to being able to coast DOES make you stronger, you get to know your template a little better, and every bit counts.
DocSavag wrote:Oh noes! a blue glowy called me an elitest.
the good spin groups work because of ONE master defender/MLS.....currently it's possible to approach 1 mil Jedi xp an hour...I know this cause I've served as a spintank and handed people levels....it requires no cooperation...just some area attacks with broken or weak weapons to avoid the risk of anyone else pulling agro....the bottom line is I'm not at all against powergamers or maximum efficiency...but this is ridiculous...and we all know that it's not gonna last AT THIS PACE....so get over it.
yes, without Area's a group that works together can earn XP way quicker than we did....but it is a more rational rate ofadvancement...no problem with that.
they need to fix the laires that never self destruct no matter how many times you clear them and come back.
laires need to release mobs with random aggro to all individuals currently attacking the mobs from, and the laire.
Right I'm a blue glowie which means I put in a year and a half volunteering my time to make the game better instead of just sitting around talking about how "I had it hard so you should too" (<<--- Elitism in case you have trouble recognizing it)
First of all I agree that you shouldn't be able to farm lairs over and over again and I've never been in a group that did that. So thats a non issue I think for most people.
The MDef talking all the heat could change without any issue either. Go ahead spread the aggro around it would be better than only the tank and the healer taking it all anyway.
None of that makes a really good spin group. A good spin group is made up of players who are paying attention, making sure they keep each other healed (especially the healers and the damage dealers) and getting the lair done. None of that is dependant on AOE. The aoe does make it go faster but the same results could be done without it, it would be a little more time consuming but not really all that much.
Nothing about making it LONGER to grind makes you stronger.
The argument started because instead of posting your actual thoughts about this subject you took a cheap glib approach expressing glee at the coming nerf to your own profession.
Simply put the SPIN isn't the problem neither is the AOE. You are suggesting that the practice of ONE player taking all the damage and allowing 7 other players to glom XP in massive amounts with no real risk and no actual skill is bad for the game. I don't disagree with that. I'm not talking about that kind of group and you are mistaken if you think that is the only way to run a spin group.
I was in a AOE group last night that was made of up 6-7 Jedi. I'm not even sure if the lead spinner was an MDEF but we didn't do anything to try to let him take all the damage. We shared the load and we kept each other on our feet and we kept killing the lair. We didn't milk the same lair over and over we finished a lair regenerated and moved on.
These players knew their profession and it showed by their actions and their conversations. Yes they actually talked to each other during their group session. It was a plesant experience and it was everything an MMO needs to be. A good group of talented players INTERACTING with each other for a common goal. There was absolutely nothing bad for the game or bad for those players in that group. We talked about our templates and the different skills each of us had and we compared notes about what certain things did and how we used them. It was a very good experience and I can only hope that I end up grouping with those fine players again.
If you want to discuss certain aspects of the Spin group that you find cheezy or explotative then fine but lumping every AOE group in to one bucket and rubbing your hands together with unrestrained joy at the impending nerfing is classless and pathetic.
again...SPIN...GROUP....AoE is not unique to the Jedi profession....and the truth is, when you have 8 players spinning (which means using AoE's) one player will naturally draw the aggro, occasionally a healer will pull it away due to the hate system...it's great you had a fun experience, those are tough enough as it is in this game...and apparently you did have a good group of players...great....you want to see the reasoning for my post, you have, you want more info, scroll back and look at the spin fans....I've been through this before, I know why the group XP nerf was intended to be implemented, and I disagreed with the mechanics of that nerf....change is necessary, however...and it is coming, regardless of how pathetic or classless I am in your opinion...so instead of launching personal attacks against me, maybe you should attempt to help others that are still grinding and could stand to learn a thing or two.
DocSavag wrote:
The argument started because instead of posting your actual thoughts about this subject you took a cheap glib approach expressing glee at the coming nerf to your own profession.
Simply put the SPIN isn't the problem neither is the AOE. You are suggesting that the practice of ONE player taking all the damage and allowing 7 other players to glom XP in massive amounts with no real risk and no actual skill is bad for the game. I don't disagree with that. I'm not talking about that kind of group and you are mistaken if you think that is the only way to run a spin group.
I was in a AOE group last night that was made of up 6-7 Jedi. I'm not even sure if the lead spinner was an MDEF but we didn't do anything to try to let him take all the damage. We shared the load and we kept each other on our feet and we kept killing the lair. We didn't milk the same lair over and over we finished a lair regenerated and moved on.
These players knew their profession and it showed by their actions and their conversations. Yes they actually talked to each other during their group session. It was a plesant experience and it was everything an MMO needs to be. A good group of talented players INTERACTING with each other for a common goal. There was absolutely nothing bad for the game or bad for those players in that group. We talked about our templates and the different skills each of us had and we compared notes about what certain things did and how we used them. It was a very good experience and I can only hope that I end up grouping with those fine players again.
If you want to discuss certain aspects of the Spin group that you find cheezy or explotative then fine but lumping every AOE group in to one bucket and rubbing your hands together with unrestrained joy at the impending nerfing is classless and pathetic.