Jedi Archive

First an important note to other Master Healers who did not knew:
Total Heal can be mixed with Force Heal to bypass the cooldown timer.
The only issue for a Master Healer with Cooldowns is forcecost.

Now, I might be hated for this, but read my reasons below:

DO NOT DENERF MINDCOST/COOLDOWNS!
WE NEED HEALWARS ENDED
NOT FUELED

* REDUCE FORCECOST NOT MINDCOST!
* GIVE US A MINDBUFF POWER IN 0400 AND/OR MASTER
* COOLDOWNS MUST STAY! MASTER HEALER CAN ALTERNATE WITH TOTAL HEAL.
* DOCTORS ARE OVERPOWERED:MAKE 4000 DOCTOR HEAL 1/4 AS EFFICIENT AS A MASTER DOCTOR!

We need the healwars ended, not fueled: If mindcost/cooldowns are reduced again, we are back to the situation where a 4xxx healer can easily outheal all damage they take. Currently the mindcost/cooldownsis the only thing balancing that.
A 4000 Doctor needs their healing powers reduced to be 1/4 as efficient as a master doctor. Only let Master Doctor's heal like they can right now. If anything needs to be reduced from heals it's forcecost!

Let the tradeoff for powerful heals be Reduced Defenses thanks to Higher Skillcost.

The Critical Issues

Fast and easy fixes for the next publish

1. Reduce forcecost
Remove Base Cost from Total Heal. With 14% mind used, critical dots, dotweapons, states, battlefatigue and 3 healthbars removed, and wounds barely happening anymore, there are nothing more that justifies a 325 base cost to Total Heal. Its also an ability we are forced to used more often now, so the basecost really needs to be removed.
Also consider to halve forcecost for healing now when we have mind limiting us.

2. Copy Serotonin Injection to 0x00 or Master
We need a way to improve our mind above average, just like a doctor can, such as a mindbuff in the Restoration line (that only master healers have anyway). This would be a fast way to allow someone with 4400 healer to heal more than a 4000 healer without drastic changes.

3. Copy Bacta Spray to 00x0
We need a areaheal ability to upkeep our role as a grouphealer.

The Lesser Issues

We get no experience for our work!
So we are meant for ASSIST you say? We get no experience or pvp rating for healing! We get experience for tanking, crowd control and damage dealing, but not healing.

All the issues with states
1. Heal States do not heal the new states such as Shock and Knee-Cap shot.
2. States can be reapplied right away after being cured.
3. States are just not good enough, which makes extinguish/shock and 0004 useless.

You can read a deeper guide about states here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=1035992

Force Sap got doublenerfed
Old: -50% for 4min
New: -35% action/-30% mind for 1min
This effect is too small/doesnt last long enough to be of any real effect. It was supposed to be like the Combat Medic version, which is still -50% and lasts for 2 minutes.

Nobody gets wounds anymore
Having regular and improved heal wounds feels like a spacefiller. Nobody receives enough wounds to make a improved version worth it.

Drag Incapacitated Player / Diagnose
We lack the basic medic abilities Drag Incapacitated Player and Diagnose.

No Defense against 1-shot kills
Master Healers have currently no good defense against 1-shot kills. With 20% armor and 0 defense, how are we supposed to upkeep our role against ranged opponents?

Our Descriptions are not updated
Parts of the Healer tree have pre-cu descriptions. Most noteworthy are the 00x0 line.

The Greater Issue

Jedi are warriors, at least "Defenders of Peace and Justice", not nurses.

A whole skilltree dedicated to just healing isnt a good idea with the upcoming FRS. If we are supposed to stand on par with other Jedi, and bounty hunters, having half of our abilities healing states that are never used, or used by jedi themselves, isnt very useful. Same goes for woundheal. We barely get any wounds.

We are very short on abilities, and even shorter on useful abilities. We need about 5-7 new abilities added to Healer that is useful in combat (no, im not kidding, Healer have 11 abilities in total, enhancer have 19!). A Healer template should not be any way shorter in combat compared to other lines.

Here's my suggestion for rearrangements:

4000: Force Rejuvenation (Heals)
Force Infusion
Force Heal
*MOVED* Wound Heal (skip the basic version)

0400: Force Assist (Power Healer)
Make this whole line based on powerful battlehealing.
- Serotonin Injection (mindbuff, to support more heals before you run out).
- Bacta Spray(Area Heal)
- Healer Stance(Reduces damage output like forcerun, but drastically boosts the healers ability to heal)

0040: Force Suppression (Debuffs)
Force Sap
Force Shock
- Thyroid Rapture (attackspeed debuff)

0004: Force Purification (heal states)
Stop Bleeding
Force Cure Disease
Force Cure Poison
Heal States
*MOVED* Extinguish (skip the basic version)
- Heal Force State (The ability to counter a Force State such as Force Sap, Force Shock, Force Suppression, Force Wave, Choke. Cannot be used on others.)

Master
Total Heal
- Revive Player
- One improved ability, or the idea about a "Healer Stance" (which sounds cool IMO).

Message Edited by MsNiL on 07-16-2005 07:21 PM

The master healer is in my view the jedi doctor. It amazes me that he cannot do a "simple" operation as rez. I would like to see the future master healer be able to rez. It detracts from no one, and is in itself nothing that even bountyhunters can cry about as "uber" or "gamebreaking".

States have little or no effect in the game currently. This renders the healstates ability moot.

Same applies for diseases and poisons.

Heal total self should clear ALL inhibiting mezzes or snares. BF is going bye bye, and wounds are easily "repaired" from other professions. Total heal is a great ability to put in the master box, but currently it does not grant any significant advantage that a master box with 3.2 mill XP otherwise warrants.

With no armor and no defenses, the master healer is by far the weakest character in game right now. Healing is the master healers "defense" and what makes him stand on his feet. Add modifiers to enable the high level healer to heal more. Currently there is no difference between a 4000 healer and a master healer. The timer and the mind/force cost needs to be adressed.

Doesn't it seem odd that both healer and powers are 'tertiary' and weaker than the other trees and both are boosted by FRS rank?

I wonder if we without FRS rank are considered 'neutral' jedi and hence our powers/healing is so weak. Could FRS rank affect zip timers? Efficiency?

I reailze this isn't really a healing issue. but I'm afraid that come FRS, dark side will be at a real survivability disadvantage due to lack of recovery.

That makes me wonder if the new FRS tree will have powers in it... I didn't really stop to consider that.

I am a bit surprised that noone has brought up any of the current bugs that are affecting anyone with healer abilitites.

Just in case noone understands what I am saying.

If you are in a group trying to do the Avatar for example, and you as a jedi are getting beat up quite a bit, you hit your toolbar button for improved force heal, you will "sometimes" get the message invalid target. More often, you will heal the group member closest to you. Very rarely will you heal yourself. The way around this of course is to click off your target, heal yourself and retarget the enemy you had targetted previously.

This happens pretty much anytime you are in a group. I was being attacked by a bounty hunter while I was group grinding. I was putting the smack down on the bounty hunter, had him down to less than 25% health, went to heal, and I healed a group member that was close by watching. I tried healing again, got invalid target. Then before I could do anything else I was killed.

According to SOE, this is working as intended. Even someone high up in SOE that plays a Combat Medic has stated that no matter what, you cannot have an enemy targeted, hit the toolbar button for any type of heal, and be guaranteed that it will work.

THIS needs to be fixed. Since they give you a toolbar button, then it should work correctly. The ONLY way to be guaranteed that you will heal yourself while having an enemy targetted is to make your own "macro" of sorts that reads, /forceheal self;

Why cant they just make the original button "default" to heal self.

That way if you have an invalid target targetted, then it defaults to healing yourself, and if you have a valid target targetted, you heal that target.

THIS is one of the BIGGEST problems with the entire game. They change things, but dont care to fix and make sure everything is working properly.

On top of that, SOE dont care. They tell you to submit a bug report and thats it.

FIX ALL professions, before trying to implement new ideas. I dont care about what force/action/mind costs are associated with each skill. I can figure out ways to accomodate them. AS LONG AS THE SKILL WORKS!!!!

---

freakenwyld wrote:

I am a bit surprised that noone has brought up any of the current bugs that are affecting anyone with healer abilitites.

Just in case noone understands what I am saying.

If you are in a group trying to do the Avatar for example, and you as a jedi are getting beat up quite a bit, you hit your toolbar button for improved force heal, you will "sometimes" get the message invalid target. More often, you will heal the group member closest to you. Very rarely will you heal yourself. The way around this of course is to click off your target, heal yourself and retarget the enemy you had targetted previously.

This happens pretty much anytime you are in a group. I was being attacked by a bounty hunter while I was group grinding. I was putting the smack down on the bounty hunter, had him down to less than 25% health, went to heal, and I healed a group member that was close by watching. I tried healing again, got invalid target. Then before I could do anything else I was killed.

According to SOE, this is working as intended. Even someone high up in SOE that plays a Combat Medic has stated that no matter what, you cannot have an enemy targeted, hit the toolbar button for any type of heal, and be guaranteed that it will work.

THIS needs to be fixed. Since they give you a toolbar button, then it should work correctly. The ONLY way to be guaranteed that you will heal yourself while having an enemy targetted is to make your own "macro" of sorts that reads, /forceheal self;

Why cant they just make the original button "default" to heal self.

That way if you have an invalid target targetted, then it defaults to healing yourself, and if you have a valid target targetted, you heal that target.

THIS is one of the BIGGEST problems with the entire game. They change things, but dont care to fix and make sure everything is working properly.

On top of that, SOE dont care. They tell you to submit a bug report and thats it.

FIX ALL professions, before trying to implement new ideas. I dont care about what force/action/mind costs are associated with each skill. I can figure out ways to accomodate them. AS LONG AS THE SKILL WORKS!!!!

---

Give a self-buff to action at healer xx2x and a major self-buff to mind at healer xx4x.

Move the fire extinguish over to the xxx4 line. Add heals for root, snare, daze, and armor break.

Add a "group regeneration" ability in the x4xx line which would cost a decent amount to activate, and work as a strong-but-short-term health/action/mind buff for the entire group. Something like +100 health regen, action regen, and mind regen for 40 seconds ata basic level attained at x2xx, and +200 to all stats at x4xx.

Message Edited by Miffo on 07-16-2005 09:53 AM

If someone has to grind out the equivalent of mastering doctor 7 fricking times... they DESERVE to heal better then doctors!

Either give Mhealers/dabblers the healing power they DESERVE or make Jedi a normal frickin class. All this grinding bullcrap just to be worse off then a profession I could have mastered in 3 days? I hope whatever SOE employee thought up that crock chokes on a gerbel.

Message Edited by BloodravenII on 07-16-2005 12:55 AM

---

MsNiL wrote:

*snip*

The Greater Issue

Jedi are warriors, at least "Defenders of Peace and Justice", not nurses.

A whole skilltree dedicated to just healing isnt a good idea with the upcoming FRS. If we are supposed to stand on par with other Jedi, and bounty hunters, having half of our abilities healing states that are never used, or used by jedi themselves, isnt very useful. Same goes for woundheal. We barely get any wounds.

We are very short on abilities, and even shorter on useful abilities. We need about 5-7 new abilities added to Healer that is useful in combat (no, im not kidding, Healer have 11 abilities in total, enhancer have 19!). A Healer template should not be any way shorter in combat compared to other lines.

Here's my suggestion for rearrangements:

4000: Force Rejuvenation (Heals) - I like the changes here
Force Infusion
Force Heal
*MOVED* Wound Heal (skip the basic version)

0400: Force Assist (Power Healer) - This is good support, but honestly with area heals...I'll explain later
Make this whole line based on powerful battlehealing.
- Serotonin Injection (mindbuff, to support more heals before you run out). - Like this idea
- Bacta Spray(Area Heal)
- Healer Stance(Reduces damage output like forcerun, but drastically boosts the healers ability to heal) - I like this idea

0040: Force Suppression (Debuffs) - Decent changes...They really need to fix sap and such though
Force Sap
Force Shock
- Thyroid Rapture (attackspeed debuff)

0004: Force Purification (heal states) - I agree that these need to absolutely be updated to fit current game states. Might I also suggest an improved KD recovery that takes minimal action and mind to use? Also...don't think choke is meant to be healable besides just using heals.
Stop Bleeding
Force Cure Disease
Force Cure Poison
Heal States
*MOVED* Extinguish (skip the basic version)
- Heal Force State (The ability to counter a Force State such as Force Sap, Force Shock, Force Suppression, Force Wave, Choke. Cannot be used on others.)

Master - Some decent abilities....I would ultimately suggest a skill that makes you immune to all states for a certain length of time (this includes roots, snares, KD, the works...not daze). Also a skill that heals any form of daze as well. It would have to be a high force cost skill, somewhere along the lines of stasis. But this might be a good idea. I think a Heal Health All ability would be great as well, if it's on a seperate timer as force heal.
Total Heal
- Revive Player - Good idea.......but possible flawed, I'll explain down below
- One improved ability, or the idea about a "Healer Stance" (which sounds cool IMO).

Message Edited by MsNiL on 07-16-2005 07:21 PM

---

/agree

I would opt for a reduced mindcost/timer though (not nearly as much as before though...maybe a 1 second decrease and 5% mind cost decrease) for healing yourself, and the same now for healing others. This would account for pretty much a lack of defense on your part and wouldn't hinder a doc/cm's job.

The main issue I have with the "support" aspect you are implying is that the FRS has the possiblity of just being 1 vs. 1, hence these would be skills that really aren't supporting yourself in battle. The whole aspect of the Jedi in place now is using the force to your own advantage, not for others. I would like to see these changes, don't get me wrong...but overall, with the designed game mechanics that SOE might be putting forth with the FRS, they still might be wasted skills.

---

MsNiL wrote:

*snip*

The Greater Issue

Jedi are warriors, at least "Defenders of Peace and Justice", not nurses.

A whole skilltree dedicated to just healing isnt a good idea with the upcoming FRS. If we are supposed to stand on par with other Jedi, and bounty hunters, having half of our abilities healing states that are never used, or used by jedi themselves, isnt very useful. Same goes for woundheal. We barely get any wounds.

We are very short on abilities, and even shorter on useful abilities. We need about 5-7 new abilities added to Healer that is useful in combat (no, im not kidding, Healer have 11 abilities in total, enhancer have 19!). A Healer template should not be any way shorter in combat compared to other lines.

Here's my suggestion for rearrangements:

4000: Force Rejuvenation (Heals)

Force Infusion
Force Heal
*MOVED* Wound Heal (skip the basic version)

0400: Force Assist (Power Healer)

Make this whole line based on powerful battlehealing.
- Serotonin Injection (mindbuff, to support more heals before you run out).
- Bacta Spray(Area Heal)
- Healer Stance(Reduces damage output like forcerun, but drastically boosts the healers ability to heal)

0040: Force Suppression (Debuffs)

Force Sap
Force Shock
- Thyroid Rapture (attackspeed debuff)

0004: Force Purification (heal states)

Stop Bleeding
Force Cure Disease
Force Cure Poison
Heal States
*MOVED* Extinguish (skip the basic version)
- Heal Force State (The ability to counter a Force State such as Force Sap, Force Shock, Force Suppression, Force Wave, Choke. Cannot be used on others.)

Master
Total Heal
- Revive Player

- One improved ability, or the idea about a "Healer Stance" (which sounds cool IMO).

Message Edited by MsNiL on 07-16-200507:21 PM

---

Now those all sound like pretty good ideas that build on things we already have in-game rather than completely new things we know the developers would never do.

Also a reduction in delay times as you get more boxes in healer sounds quite a good idea to me, like the speed modifiers other professions get.Perhaps also an immunity to states for a short period of time after using heal all states to stop the being re-applied instantly?

I'm not a master healer myself but I can see that atm healer is the weakest of all the master boxes, and giving it some newer, more relevant moves would encourage diversity.

i as master defender would love to see that master healer get better healing timers and it would be nice if the healing skill would loose it's movment stopping, so that you can run towards someone and heal someone in the other direction without stoping for the time you use the force healing (or was it the infusion that stops you).

i would like to see sap on par with the cm skill.

to stat attacks i have to say, nerve the normal professions that they can't heal them by just clicking a button, that should be the domain of the healer including the jedi healer, the normal profession may keep the skill but only heal the effect by using the skill more then once, like the old bleeding healing

althou this is not a defender thread, please the remove the timer on dominate mind and give it a better agro and maybe a area effect at master