Jedi Archive
Thread: SAC Cost Issues (added Force Cost)
Ive really gone over to playing wow on full time. This game has just lost it lately. Its just so redicolous...
Some points:
98 SAC saber is possible with the best resources and an amazing success with 8 points in effic
Leaving 4 for damage (12 point suit is a must)
As for the SAC thing, I'm not sure that the cost has increased at all.
Some people were saying that the cool down timers on speicals were not using modified speed, but base speed. If the Devs fixed this (maybe by accident) and sabers were now alot faster than before publish, you would see a massive increase in the drain of SAC and force (seeing as drain of force is now above your regen rates)
With my tests force regen seems about the same
The tests of numbers with SAC and FC show the same
But I think I have noticed a large increase in the rate at which I attack.
This is my best guess at the reason its like this, a bug fix, not a nerf.
LintonLisa wrote:
Some points:
98 SAC saber is possible with the best resources and an amazing success with 8 points in effic
Leaving 4 for damage (12 point suit is a must)
As for the SAC thing, I'm not sure that the cost has increased at all.
Some people were saying that the cool down timers on speicals were not using modified speed, but base speed. If the Devs fixed this (maybe by accident) and sabers were now alot faster than before publish, you would see a massive increase in the drain of SAC and force (seeing as drain of force is now above your regen rates)
With my tests force regen seems about the same
The tests of numbers with SAC and FC show the same
But I think I have noticed a large increase in the rate at which I attack.
This is my best guess at the reason its like this, a bug fix, not a nerf.
im not sure about thattheory... the force usage should be the same since we are going to use the same amount of attacks to kill the lair. so the amount used to kill the lair is the same if it's a speed 'fix' or not...the problem is we never got tired after 2 lairs before, why are we all of the sudden having to wait for regen to start on the next lair?
if you're talkin about the regen time while we're fighting being shorter cause we are faster...it goes both ways because now that you're faster you will drain your action faster and you will be force to wait it out either way.
LintonLisa wrote:
works like this, numbers for example:
Before one lair cost you 2000 force, but the regen rate over say 5 minutes was 1500, so the total cost is only 500 for the whole lair.
Same lair, same cost, but it takes half the time now, so... half the force regen: 2000 - 750 = 1250 Total lost force a lair.
As you can see the total loss force has more than doubled from this example
If you take it further... 4 lairs used to cost you 2000 force (about 30% of total pool of double master)
If we half the time for lars, 4 lairs costs: 1250 x 4 = 5000 force, (about 75% of total pool of double master)
So over 4 lairs (assuming no regen in the middle), you have used 3000 more force then you used too, all because Regen is half the rate, because you attack twice as fast.
It all depends on numbers, and its hard to get them. But increased speed could suck your force dry.
I know what you mean but the reason im not agreeing is I really dont think the speed theory is true. It takes the same amount of time to kill the lair with the nerf as apposed to before it. How do i know? I spin group for 4-5 hours at a time and from all of those pikets lairs I hit force speed 1 (6 minutes) right before i start spinning and by the time I kill the lair I check my force speed 1 and it will have 1 min left on it. I do the same exact thing everytime...we are creatures of habit. So I doubt it is the speed, there is defenatly something broke (well broker I guess).
Message Edited by sionide on 09-01-2005 07:07 PM
Message Edited by gumby95383 on 09-01-2005 07:39 PM
I think I am attacking much quicker.
The auto attack is even generating red boxes as well as yellow ones. (round the speicals).
I am sure aura and infusion cost no force (i.e. force regens totally before macro fires again). People have posted numbers about speicals being the same cost as well.
So we have two choices:
One: What I suggest, that speed has increased (bug/fix)
Two: That mystically Force is being drained, but only in combat, because its not showing up on peoples speical tests.
LintonLisa wrote:I think I am attacking much quicker.
The auto attack is even generating red boxes as well as yellow ones. (round the speicals).
I am sure aura and infusion cost no force (i.e. force regens totally before macro fires again). People have posted numbers about speicals being the same cost as well.
So we have two choices:
One: What I suggest, that speed has increased (bug/fix)
Two: That mystically Force is being drained, but only in combat, because its not showing up on peoples speical tests.
uhh many people have tested an aura macro sitting in a house doing nothing, and seeing thier pool drain to 0 within 20 minutes.
this was NEVER the case before. im not even full template but this was simply not the case for me before this publish.
something is wrong.
as for the 'combat speed increase causing red boxes blah blah' yes i have noticed this as well. HOWEVER. its not attacking any faster, its just firing the special (when for instance your default attack is set to improved spin) and using the force/action/mind, but not executing the attack. let me try to demonstrate, and when the servers come back up ill try to take a fraps video.
You set imp. Spin as your default and approach a lair
You begin your attack with a saber hit just to start it out, then let auto attack take over.
What immediately happens, if there are not mobs about to defend this lair, is you drop out of combat after the first auto attack fires. Its not keeping you in combat, another bug.
If there ARE mobs about to keep you in combat, what you will notice is the command executes, and then cycles as normal, the round timer cycles on all your other attacks, and you can watch the cool down on the spin cycle, and then it fires again. well as you know if you continue to spin attack SOMETHING is going to die, so, lets say one of the mobs dies.
Remember the bug pre-cu wher eyou could cue up a ton of attacks in the combat cue (RIP) and when one mob died it dumped the cue and you had to re-cue? (thats a lot of cues in one sentance...) It does the same thing
You will instantly see the button go RED as it attempts to fire the attack AGAIN. HOWEVER, SOME TIMES, it attempts to fire, triggers the cool down and round timers on all the other attacks, uses the force, the action, and the mind, BUT DOES NOT ATTACK, you will see no damage fly text, no attack spam in the combat chat, NOTHING.
What happens next? The auto attack begins to cue up attacks, without you doing anything, you see the yellow box form around the spin attack (the one you set to auto and have not even pushed with the mouse or keyboard). It then executes, and another yellow box appears. What happens when you try to execute a heal, or secondary attack, is it will finish the current spin, then spin AGAIN (because there was one cued) and THEN it will execute the secondary attack/heal you were trying to execute to save your life.
I grinded about 5 hours a while ago, and saw this reproduced on every, single, piket/bol/monkey/giraffe/jacklalope/dantari/janta/insertmobnamehere lair.
How does that bit about cueing up attacks affect the previous statements about attack costs firing with no actual attack? Guess what, It cues up MORE dud attacks and continues to exectute the cost modifiers without executing the actual attack, and it does it VERY VERY FAST, i noticed many many times that my 104 sac saber on imp. spin auto attack could keep my action bar EMPTY yes EMPTY, while doing less DPS overall than before this patch.
Something is broken. And dont get me started on the pikets that try to run away after thier little 'AI' upgrade....
i am going to post this in its own topic, as i have just laid out everything i've been waiting to lay out,and i wantto hear similar stories centered around this data.
Iaccept the arguement that it could be firing attacks, failing to actually attack, but cost you FHAM.
This is another option yes.
I will look into it.
Tribones wrote:
LintonLisa wrote:
I think I am attacking much quicker.
The auto attack is even generating red boxes as well as yellow ones. (round the speicals).
I am sure aura and infusion cost no force (i.e. force regens totally before macro fires again). People have posted numbers about speicals being the same cost as well.
So we have two choices:
One: What I suggest, that speed has increased (bug/fix)
Two: That mystically Force is being drained, but only in combat, because its not showing up on peoples speical tests.
uhh many people have tested an aura macro sitting in a house doing nothing, and seeing thier pool drain to 0 within 20 minutes.
this was NEVER the case before. im not even full template but this was simply not the case for me before this publish.
something is wrong.
as for the 'combat speed increase causing red boxes blah blah' yes i have noticed this as well. HOWEVER. its not attacking any faster, its just firing the special (when for instance your default attack is set to improved spin) and using the force/action/mind, but not executing the attack. let me try to demonstrate, and when the servers come back up ill try to take a fraps video.
You set imp. Spin as your default and approach a lair
You begin your attack with a saber hit just to start it out, then let auto attack take over.
What immediately happens, if there are not mobs about to defend this lair, is you drop out of combat after the first auto attack fires. Its not keeping you in combat, another bug.
If there ARE mobs about to keep you in combat, what you will notice is the command executes, and then cycles as normal, the round timer cycles on all your other attacks, and you can watch the cool down on the spin cycle, and then it fires again. well as you know if you continue to spin attack SOMETHING is going to die, so, lets say one of the mobs dies.
Remember the bug pre-cu wher eyou could cue up a ton of attacks in the combat cue (RIP) and when one mob died it dumped the cue and you had to re-cue? (thats a lot of cues in one sentance...) It does the same thing
You will instantly see the button go RED as it attempts to fire the attack AGAIN. HOWEVER, SOME TIMES, it attempts to fire, triggers the cool down and round timers on all the other attacks, uses the force, the action, and the mind, BUT DOES NOT ATTACK, you will see no damage fly text, no attack spam in the combat chat, NOTHING.
What happens next? The auto attack begins to cue up attacks, without you doing anything, you see the yellow box form around the spin attack (the one you set to auto and have not even pushed with the mouse or keyboard). It then executes, and another yellow box appears. What happens when you try to execute a heal, or secondary attack, is it will finish the current spin, then spin AGAIN (because there was one cued) and THEN it will execute the secondary attack/heal you were trying to execute to save your life.
I grinded about 5 hours a while ago, and saw this reproduced on every, single, piket/bol/monkey/giraffe/jacklalope/dantari/janta/insertmobnamehere lair.
How does that bit about cueing up attacks affect the previous statements about attack costs firing with no actual attack? Guess what, It cues up MORE dud attacks and continues to exectute the cost modifiers without executing the actual attack, and it does it VERY VERY FAST, i noticed many many times that my 104 sac saber on imp. spin auto attack could keep my action bar EMPTY yes EMPTY, while doing less DPS overall than before this patch.
Something is broken. And dont get me started on the pikets that try to run away after thier little 'AI' upgrade....
i am going to post this in its own topic, as i have just laid out everything i've been waiting to lay out,and i wantto hear similar stories centered around this data.
wow you hit the nail right on the head...I was wondering if that's some kind of bug with my char or im actually hitting but it just flashes the icon red as if i didnt....that could explain the problem im having with needing to stop for force after every 2-3 piket lairs now (dont have channel). very nice observation.
netslayer wrote:
same here master def use force aura macro and tank bantha rontos before pub 23 use only 10-20% force with 9 fc saber and occasional healing now i use about 75% force per lair soemthing is definately messed up here. im thinking aura is wrong all together now sometimes it works right for defenses sometimes its as if it isnt on. the macro always stops working since its reacuring. also we think there is something wrong with the force regen as well. it seems jedi got lots of bugs this patch it would be nice to see a dev response to all this soon to let us know what is going on.
This is EXACTLY what I experienced last night, force aura is not working full time when it's active anymore. I used to have mostly misses when I was attacked, now it's mostly hits. Force Aura is NOT working on my character like it used to. I haven't tested this today since last hotfix, and I plan on working on my alt untill this is fixed.