Jedi Archive

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Jacella wrote:

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blademaster30 wrote:

ahh the truth comes out you have suffered and you want every one else to.

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Yep...and that's the way it should be. Maybe with a harder grind, the whiners would be weeded out earlier.

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How sad...

Anyway, I dont think Jedi should be considered PvP only, if that were the case, we wouldnt had to grind through PvE. The whole thing is that, most people see Jedi as the ultimate PvP alpha, beta, gamma, uber class. Instead of what is represented in the movies (Star Wars overall), extraordinary warriors with extraordinary abilities, wich can manipulate the force, lets not get into the whole Light/Dark argument though, since both have their own vision of the Force.

However, saying that if you dont PvP or dont like it you should stop playing with your Jedi, is like saying that if you dont like to make camps you shouldnt become a scout/ranger, in a few words, not because you think that way is the right one, its completely true for everyone. Hey nice, you enjoy more the PvP with your Jedi, cool congrats, but some people care more about the ROLEPLAYING aspect of the game or what Jedi represents to them (noble warriors and helpers for example).

Plus, the OP was suggesting giving an extra edge to the BH vs Jedi system, something that could make it so BH FEAR a lightsaber again. But again, you all fail to read that part and automatically think this post is in complete conflict with your view on Jedi and come to say "Oh Im a better Jedi! Go away!" posts.

Thanks for the inciteful addition to this thread Jacella (and all the other players who followed her trend), and show to the community how selfish and unconsidered you are to other players thoughts.

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Jacella wrote:

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Fugitron wrote:

Ever heard of the term, the first generation plants the seeds and the next enjoy the shade? Cause I'm not sure you do. I realize you want jedi to be more powerful, but its not gonna happen.... MAYBE via the FRS it may, but I highly doubt it.

As for you inreasing the difficulty, that is prolly the most ridiculous logic. Unless they said "ok jedi you have an option, we can make you uber and increase your pain and suffering OR we can leave you how it is and take away xp loss, we know you had a longer grind so you deserve some extra benefits for it" .... which would you choose? I have a feeling you would go for the first one, whereas I for the second.

You need to realize that back when we unlocked they were all primarily power gamers who loved PvP and loved the power they got for the work. Well, like it or not before these new jedi even became glowy they began to slowly make jedi less effective to the watered down version of jedi that we have today.

My suggestion instead of complaining and saying that everyone needs to work as hard as we did in order for jedi to be "uber" again you can instead support and understand the ideas of these new jedi. They don't wanna lose any power either, however as it stands they are seriously GIMPED in terms of saber damage which unless you played your jedi with only 3 of your pearls in it for a day you might not realize how hard it is.

I can COMPLETELY understand why the new jedi are getting VERY aggitated against these BHs who have the good armor and weaponry. They are prolly the alts of those early jedi.

I know it seems like I am kinda ranting, but Jacella you are one of the most outspoken voices in this forum, but I have seen NOTHING in the past weeks from you actually "helping" anyone. All you do is try to prove people wrong and shoot down ideas such as this one instead of maybe taking a step back and realizing they are seeing things from an entirely different perspective. I don't want to sound insulting, but it frustrates me to hear older jedi wanting things to be so much harder... and for what? The POSSIBILITY of being more powerful.... sorry that ended with the CU.

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Firstly, the length of grind is the worst of all possible reasons for increased power. So, you ground for 8 months...and now you are done and have nothing that can hurt you..yadda yadda yadda....the kindling is set, the fire would insue.

The reason that jedi need to maintain a higher level is because of consistant dangers. This needs to be amplified to account for an increase of power. Finished templates will have that with the FRS. Padawans need to have it with BH's knocking at their door.

The pearl/crystal drops are part of the problem, yes. The easy fix would be to make good and quality tune like Prem and flawless...but that makes too much sense.

My personal viewpoint is that they should have never removed hologrinding. It ensured that the people who attained padawan were fully versed in the game. I feel it's retarded that a Padawan has to ask how to craft a saber because they never did a crafting profession. I am amazed that there are so many jedi that are completely clueless about 50% of the professions. There are people that started in May that have completed templates...they only did 1 elite profession (prolly a combat prof) and never did pvp prior to donning their robes. Is it any wonder that they think that jedi is gimped?

Yes, a longer grind is required and needed...yes, padawans need to be hunted...yes, xp loss from cloning needs to return...yes, gank squads should be allowed....yes, starport pvpers should be shot on sight...yes, I want the risk factor in this game to increase for jedi. And yes, BH's that fail numerous missions consecutively should be hunted by other BH's....that's called fun!

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The only risk for me that would be fun and keep me in check would permatoon death(not just for jedi but everybody), but i'm a glutton for punishment.

Message Edited by rebellious_imp on 09-20-2005 01:53 PM

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EcadMistflier wrote:

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Fugitron wrote:

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MrDecipher wrote:

When you choose to be jedi you know 1 thing for sure. You will be attackable by BHs always has been this was always will be this way. Don't ever expect this to change if you don't want to have to fight BHers play Jedi academy or something. The game is how it is. Jedi has from day one been given the role of a PvP oriented class with forced PvP.

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When the first jedi appeared the BH system didn't exist. What I mean is that no player could hunt another at that time. As soon as more started to unlock the ability to hunt jedi was added in. So, please don't give us the whole "it has always been this way" and "you knew what to expect" rebuttles. Cause it wasn't ever stated in the manual OR in the game until they implemented BH v Jedi that they would be hunted. Yes they said the road was hard and yadda yadaa, but the grind in itself takes 4 months minimum just to get jedi. I think thats more than enough of an excuse for jedi to have more power. I personally think they should take out xp loss, because jedi are not what there were and are seriously lacking in power.

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Your agument is rational, based of fact, has the merit of being well written andis not dismissive or insulting. All the reasons the majority of the posters in this forum will reject it out of hand.

The only sure way to bring balance back to SWG is to reduce the number of Jedi in the current system. The only sure way to do that is to reduce the number of players with Jedi characters. The most effective way to do that is to make the Jedi undesirable to the majority of the younglings playing them. The best way to do that is to take away mandatory pvp ie., player bounties.

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This is also the best way to lose current customers and to reduce new customers because the iconic profession they wnated to play in an MMO isn't attainable or is undesireable. Which is why it won't happen. What they will do is continue to dilute the power of the profession. Its the only method they have of balancing the numbers vs the power since they can't afford to attack the numbers directly.

As for the forced PVP. The GCW was forced PVP in the beginning too. They eventually realized that PVP is a playstyle choice and changed that to encourage people to take part in the GCW from both a pvp and a pve standpoint.

They haven't done that to Jedi for one simple reason. They don't have to. Plenty of people are willing to put up with the annoyance of forced pvp to play that iconic profession.

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Jacella wrote:

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Fugitron wrote:

Ever heard of the term, the first generation plants the seeds and the next enjoy the shade? Cause I'm not sure you do. I realize you want jedi to be more powerful, but its not gonna happen.... MAYBE via the FRS it may, but I highly doubt it.

As for you inreasing the difficulty, that is prolly the most ridiculous logic. Unless they said "ok jedi you have an option, we can make you uber and increase your pain and suffering OR we can leave you how it is and take away xp loss, we know you had a longer grind so you deserve some extra benefits for it" .... which would you choose? I have a feeling you would go for the first one, whereas I for the second.

You need to realize that back when we unlocked they were all primarily power gamers who loved PvP and loved the power they got for the work. Well, like it or not before these new jedi even became glowy they began to slowly make jedi less effective to the watered down version of jedi that we have today.

My suggestion instead of complaining and saying that everyone needs to work as hard as we did in order for jedi to be "uber" again you can instead support and understand the ideas of these new jedi. They don't wanna lose any power either, however as it stands they are seriously GIMPED in terms of saber damage which unless you played your jedi with only 3 of your pearls in it for a day you might not realize how hard it is.

I can COMPLETELY understand why the new jedi are getting VERY aggitated against these BHs who have the good armor and weaponry. They are prolly the alts of those early jedi.

I know it seems like I am kinda ranting, but Jacella you are one of the most outspoken voices in this forum, but I have seen NOTHING in the past weeks from you actually "helping" anyone. All you do is try to prove people wrong and shoot down ideas such as this one instead of maybe taking a step back and realizing they are seeing things from an entirely different perspective. I don't want to sound insulting, but it frustrates me to hear older jedi wanting things to be so much harder... and for what? The POSSIBILITY of being more powerful.... sorry that ended with the CU.

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Firstly, the length of grind is the worst of all possible reasons for increased power. So, you ground for 8 months...and now you are done and have nothing that can hurt you..yadda yadda yadda....the kindling is set, the fire would insue.

The reason that jedi need to maintain a higher level is because of consistant dangers. This needs to be amplified to account for an increase of power. Finished templates will have that with the FRS. Padawans need to have it with BH's knocking at their door.

The pearl/crystal drops are part of the problem, yes. The easy fix would be to make good and quality tune like Prem and flawless...but that makes too much sense.

My personal viewpoint is that they should have never removed hologrinding. It ensured that the people who attained padawan were fully versed in the game. I feel it's retarded that a Padawan has to ask how to craft a saber because they never did a crafting profession. I am amazed that there are so many jedi that are completely clueless about 50% of the professions. There are people that started in May that have completed templates...they only did 1 elite profession (prolly a combat prof) and never did pvp prior to donning their robes. Is it any wonder that they think that jedi is gimped?

Yes, a longer grind is required and needed...yes, padawans need to be hunted...yes, xp loss from cloning needs to return...yes, gank squads should be allowed....yes, starport pvpers should be shot on sight...yes, I want the risk factor in this game to increase for jedi. And yes, BH's that fail numerous missions consecutively should be hunted by other BH's....that's called fun!

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While I can agree you also know Damn well that we will never get that back... and Yes I miss it, but these new guys would be eaten alive if they did that now and the complaints would reach a all time high and you know it.

If they are complaining now , just think what it would be in our old system. Man I still get people telling me I exploited because I have no profession badges or content badges in my Profile -- people actully arguing with me because I have a whopping 25 total lol... I mean Im to the point I just laugh and shrug them off at this point.

I can't change this system, they should have never made us as weak as a nuna but they did... and now due to all the cries and moans from people (Probably some that are Jedi now)..saying we were to strong caused this issue, not just the Devs..

So in short... I have got past it, I can remember the good ole days and at least my Jedi profile on my toon shows what I have been through and my experience has served me soooo well since the CU so I guess for that Im thankful.

Just feel good in the thought of being able to say, "I did it when it was hard and not a fad".... that part cannot be taken away...

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MrDecipher wrote:

When you choose to be jedi you know 1 thing for sure. You will be attackable by BHs always has been this was always will be this way. Don't ever expect this to change if you don't want to have to fight BHers play Jedi academy or something. The game is how it is. Jedi has from day one been given the role of a PvP oriented class with forced PvP.

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The difference between then and now is clearly the level of power a Jedi had PRE-CU vs this BS that POST-CU Jedi have to suffer through

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Fugitron wrote:

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Crash752 wrote:

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Fugitron wrote:

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Auraveda wrote:




That's only really a valid argument if you happen to be one of those first folks to unlock Jedi. So yeah, if you're one of those first few, then by all means scream till you're blue in the face about how this isn't what it was like when you unlocked, that you never expected to have to PVP or be hunted.

And using the argument that it isn't in the manual is just laughable. Is ANYTHING in the original manual right anymore? The game has changed so much that the only constants now are change and bugs.

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Lemme put it this way, when I chose to go jedi it was different whenI got there, and then it changed some more, and then again and then the CU. No one knew "what to expect" when they got there. For me, I saw the power and said "I gots to get me some of that," and that was it. Too bad when I finished the power just was not what it was when I decided to go jedi. Make sense?

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The reason you aren't satisfied with Jedi is because you are exactly the type of player that should never have been able to become a Jedi let alone stay a Jedi for longer than a few days. Everytime the Jedi game is made easier it is made less rewarding.

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What makes your $15 worth more than mine. Its people like you who make the forums and the game a bad place in general. Go play WoW if you can't handle suggestions or criticism, they will baby you like you want to be.

.... oh and btw, Sometimes being jedi means more than killing other people. Think about it.

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My $15 a month is worth more than yours because I enjoy the game. Your $15 a month must not mean anything to you if the high point of your playing experience is crying on the forums about how you want the game dumbed down then crying again when you find out you've been nerfed.

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RyFord wrote:

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MrDecipher wrote:

When you choose to be jedi you know 1 thing for sure. You will be attackable by BHs always has been this was always will be this way. Don't ever expect this to change if you don't want to have to fight BHers play Jedi academy or something. The game is how it is. Jedi has from day one been given the role of a PvP oriented class with forced PvP.

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The difference between then and now is clearly the level of power a Jedi had PRE-CU vs this BS that POST-CU Jedi have to suffer through

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Well that and the experience and real draw backs -- from simple crafting fails to server crashes causing you loss and time.. in larger measures.

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Gelotri wrote:

Actually Jacella, that excuse of "Jedi are and have always been the prey of BH's" just dont cut it. This is Star Wars isnt it? I dont recall any Jedi being hunted by a BH in any of the movies. How many BH missions did you do while traveling up the Investigations tree that were targeting other BH's (NPC's), who failed to do what they were hired to do and had a contract put out on them? I am speaking of the NPC's by the way, for those not familiar with the BH trees and missions. People say Jedi are a PVP class and as such dictates they should be able to be hunted by other players. I feel it boils down to plain 'ol player griefing when they are the only ones that can be hunted. BH is a PvP class, CM is a PvP class, as is Commando. Why not make it so ANY player can find themselves on the terms and lose xp on death? Might make folks learn to be nicer to each other, slow their mastering professions in 2 days, and in effect decrease the so called "Jedi Over-Population explosion". Then when the shoe is on the other foot (to coin a phrase) how much crying will they do? If SOE's reasoning is because it would allow for player griefing, then they are contradicting themselves and are authorizing player griefing of Jedi. The Jedi profession should be a tough role to play, but so should BH and any other "Elite" combat class. I also feel that there should be a way to attack another player without going through the whole \Duel thing. Maybe have an option to be fulltime PvP. The bottom line is that a a single player group should not be forced into a PvP situation unless it is the same across the board for every profession. Another thing, just because someone says something you dont like or agree with, they have a right to express their views (As Koe did) does not give you the right to tell him to go somewhere else if he dont like it. That is your favorite response. He pays for his right to complain about things he disagrees with. Just like you pay for the right to show what horses arse you are. The funny thing is, there is an old saying that goes something like this: "If it looks like a skunk, and smells like a skunk, it probably is a skunk." What I mean by this is that you support the fact that Jedi are the only ones that should be hunted, you admit you have a BH "Alt", and "say" you have a Jedi toon. To me it sounds as though you dont have as much concern for the rights of Jedi profession as you do for the rights of the BH profession. Why not delete/sell your jedi and play the BH profession full time. since that seems to be where your heart is. Many would not like to see anything suggested here but I would bet good money they are the same ones who take Jedi missions daily. And yes, I have a Jedi toon and a BH toon. And no...I havent been killed by a BH for quite some time. Just my opinions here whether you agree or not. Everyone has one.

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I have a jedi and a MBH on the same account, brightboy. I play whichever I feel like being...the hunter or the hunted. I enjoy both roles.

As to where my "heart" is, it is in favor of a lively and flavorful SWG experience. If you have nothing to fear, then what's the point? Jedi, during the setting of SWG are the hunted. We are granted power to cope with this, but there is still high risk. Alpha classes aren't about a one button nuke, but about a versitile toon that requires cunning, tactics, and skill...and tools to a lesser degree. If your jedi isn't Alpha class to you...maybe the player isn't at the Alpha class standard;

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iskareot wrote:

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Auraveda wrote:

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Fugitron wrote:

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MrDecipher wrote:

When you choose to be jedi you know 1 thing for sure. You will be attackable by BHs always has been this was always will be this way. Don't ever expect this to change if you don't want to have to fight BHers play Jedi academy or something. The game is how it is. Jedi has from day one been given the role of a PvP oriented class with forced PvP.

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When the first jedi appeared the BH system didn't exist. What I mean is that no player could hunt another at that time. As soon as more started to unlock the ability to hunt jedi was added in. So, please don't give us the whole "it has always been this way" and "you knew what to expect" rebuttles. Cause it wasn't ever stated in the manual OR in the game until they implemented BH v Jedi that they would be hunted. Yes they said the road was hard and yadda yadaa, but the grind in itself takes 4 months minimum just to get jedi. I think thats more than enough of an excuse for jedi to have more power. I personally think they should take out xp loss, because jedi are not what there were and are seriously lacking in power.

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That's only really a valid argument if you happen to be one of those first folks to unlock Jedi. So yeah, if you're one of those first few, then by all means scream till you're blue in the face about how this isn't what it was like when you unlocked, that you never expected to have to PVP or be hunted.

And using the argument that it isn't in the manual is just laughable. Is ANYTHING in the original manual right anymore? The game has changed so much that the only constants now are change and bugs.

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Lol Look in my sigs clicky -- lol weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for old Jedi weeeeeeeeeeeee lol

Man do I miss being able to kill 2 or 3 that came at me...lol.. tefed and all.

Message Edited by iskareot on 09-20-2005 03:40 PM

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Then, by all means, feel free to cry more.

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Crash752 wrote:

My $15 a month is worth more than yours because I enjoy the game. Your $15 a month must not mean anything to you if the high point of your playing experience is crying on the forums about how you want the game dumbed down then crying again when you find out you've been nerfed.

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Fugitron wrote:

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Crash752 wrote:

My $15 a month is worth more than yours because I enjoy the game. Your $15 a month must not mean anything to you if the high point of your playing experience is crying on the forums about how you want the game dumbed down then crying again when you find out you've been nerfed.

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Congrats, you have won the award for the most moronic thing ever said on the forums EVER.

If you didn't notice my posts never were even about suggesting anything, I was going with the ON TOPIC flow, but yourself decided to chime in with all your negativity cause you are uber l337 and know EVERYTHING about the game right? I do have suggestions based on the power level of jedi currently, but you can't see past your think glasses to even RATIONALIZE a conversation and to be elitist. Agree to disagree instead of putting someone whom you do not even know down. Also I SUGGEST that you actually read what I said before accusing me of crying or complaining on the forums. Thank You.

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Actually I agree with him