Jedi Archive

you obviously are hittin teh crack pipe....

take another hit..

now DREAM

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

I'm not sure where people keep getting the impression that a Defenders skills all should be passive. Passive or active, it doesn't matter, Defenders are about defense, which includes Force defense. Every othertree has something that affects other people (DM isn't a PVP skill,) Healer even has SAP and Shock, Defender doesn't have any of that. Look at how versatile Enhancer is, you get movement, Force Regen, Defense, Roots, Snares, and Mezzes. Defender gets defense that's it.

Now if Healers were complaining about Defenders, I could have some sympathy, but Enhancers have nothnig to gripe about.

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its us powers guys that are complaining. While every other jedi has the option to decrease the defenses of their target powers does not. Almost everybody (except pure powers guys) has at least 0400 saber which includes armor break. While armor break does a great job at reducing defenses and increasing lightsaber dps, it does not help powers guys very much against people with 0040 defender. Since aura is in that line it is one of the most commonly dabbled line in all of the jedi skills. Force defense totally screws with powers damage, with no way to reduce it. It is almost pathetic when i try to fight against any jedi with 0040 defender as my dps goes right down the drain. There are a lot of ideas in order to fix this. One is to switch force defense and state defense, so jedi have to choose between jedi defense and aura. But i think the best idea is to turn force weaken into a sort of force defense armor break. Does the exact same thing as armor break, but only for force defense. This would go a long way to balancing powers against other jedi.

Well my point was to make defender pure natural defence proff. Not to make enchancer better. So I guess the topic should have been remove force defence from defender. Aura and valor fits in nice since they raise defence against natural defences.

Motivation to the post was the thought of traditional set up where: The fighter is strong against natural dmg but weak against magic. And vica versa.

And as I mentioned in my earlier reply to this post I am not encancer alone I have def also im my template and anyway this post has nothing to do with my template. I try to be objective.

If you want to find someone I am helping with this post that would be Master Powers(which I do not have).

Message Edited by IMPL on 09-09-2005 06:02 AM

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kobra09 wrote:

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

I'm not sure where people keep getting the impression that a Defenders skills all should be passive. Passive or active, it doesn't matter, Defenders are about defense, which includes Force defense. Every other tree has something that affects other people (DM isn't a PVP skill,) Healer even has SAP and Shock, Defender doesn't have any of that. Look at how versatile Enhancer is, you get movement, Force Regen, Defense, Roots, Snares, and Mezzes. Defender gets defense that's it.

Now if Healers were complaining about Defenders, I could have some sympathy, but Enhancers have nothnig to gripe about.

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its us powers guys that are complaining. While every other jedi has the option to decrease the defenses of their target powers does not. Almost everybody (except pure powers guys) has at least 0400 saber which includes armor break. While armor break does a great job at reducing defenses and increasing lightsaber dps, it does not help powers guys very much against people with 0040 defender. Since aura is in that line it is one of the most commonly dabbled line in all of the jedi skills. Force defense totally screws with powers damage, with no way to reduce it. It is almost pathetic when i try to fight against any jedi with 0040 defender as my dps goes right down the drain. There are a lot of ideas in order to fix this. One is to switch force defense and state defense, so jedi have to choose between jedi defense and aura. But i think the best idea is to turn force weaken into a sort of force defense armor break. Does the exact same thing as armor break, but only for force defense. This would go a long way to balancing powers against other jedi.

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How about you ask for a higher innate min damage of Powers attacks then? Obviously Lightning, Choke and such have a min-max damage if they are affected by accuracy / defense ratios? Raise the min damage so it isnt affected a lot by the innate Force defense, but so that you need breach to remove Aura before you can inflict serious damage.

Message Edited by Eskie on 09-09-2005 02:53 PM

I have Saber Enhancer Defender and Healer in my template , no powers as much as id like it. One thing I am, is a Jedi player . I am not a defender enhancer sabers healer or powers player but a jedi. I never have called for skills to be nerfed from one skill or another and i never will.

Nerf SOE thats all I ask.

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Eskie wrote:

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kobra09 wrote:

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

I'm not sure where people keep getting the impression that a Defenders skills all should be passive. Passive or active, it doesn't matter, Defenders are about defense, which includes Force defense. Every other tree has something that affects other people (DM isn't a PVP skill,) Healer even has SAP and Shock, Defender doesn't have any of that. Look at how versatile Enhancer is, you get movement, Force Regen, Defense, Roots, Snares, and Mezzes. Defender gets defense that's it.

Now if Healers were complaining about Defenders, I could have some sympathy, but Enhancers have nothnig to gripe about.

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its us powers guys that are complaining. While every other jedi has the option to decrease the defenses of their target powers does not. Almost everybody (except pure powers guys) has at least 0400 saber which includes armor break. While armor break does a great job at reducing defenses and increasing lightsaber dps, it does not help powers guys very much against people with 0040 defender. Since aura is in that line it is one of the most commonly dabbled line in all of the jedi skills. Force defense totally screws with powers damage, with no way to reduce it. It is almost pathetic when i try to fight against any jedi with 0040 defender as my dps goes right down the drain. There are a lot of ideas in order to fix this. One is to switch force defense and state defense, so jedi have to choose between jedi defense and aura. But i think the best idea is to turn force weaken into a sort of force defense armor break. Does the exact same thing as armor break, but only for force defense. This would go a long way to balancing powers against other jedi.

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How about you ask for a higher innate min damage of Powers attacks then? Obviously Lightning, Choke and such have a min-max damage if they are affected by accuracy / defense ratios? Raise the min damage so it isnt affected a lot by the innate Force defense, but so that you need breach to remove Aura before you can inflict serious damage.

Message Edited by Eskie on 09-09-2005 02:53 PM

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that would be good, but is that ever going to happen. How long has everyone (not just powers guys) been asking to remove the zip bars from lightning? Powers is the red headed stepchild of jedi.I'm still holding out hope, but I'm not holding my breath at the same time. Powers is hella fun, even in its nerfed state, I can only imagine what it would be like if wehopefully eventually getup to par with all other jedi. /sigh.

Message Edited by IMPL on 09-09-2005 06:04 AM

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IMPL wrote:

Hello everyone

- Defender should be about agility, reflexes and toughness. Heshould be melee fighter with extraordinary samurai like defence skills. Warrior with unnatural ability to avoid combat blows.

- To have this mage like force defence as well makes defender untouchable which I personally think it's boring, unbalancingand above all just poor taste. It does not really belong there if you look at it honestly...

- The fact that enchancer allready has force shield gives us a good hint where the force defence really should be.

I will sit here by the fire and await your comments

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Yep, force DEFENSE obviously does not belong to DEFENDER tree.

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IMPL wrote:

Hello everyone

- Defender should be about agility, reflexes and toughness. He should be melee fighter with extraordinary samurai like defence skills. Warrior with unnatural ability to avoid combat blows.

- To have this mage like force defence as well makes defender untouchable which I personally think it's boring, unbalancing and above all just poor taste. It does not really belong there if you look at it honestly...

- The fact that enchancer allready has force shield gives us a good hint where the force defence really should be.

I will sit here by the fire and await your comments

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Please look very closely at the Enhancer tree. If you are seeing a Choke or Lightning hitting you, turn on Force Feedback, Force Shield and Force Absorb and watch in awe as the Powers Jedi cloaks and leaves (or starts draining your Force). Enhancer has tons of anti-powers buffs and is fine as it is.
As somebody already said - why would you move Force Defense to Enhancer?

If I want to argue with your points, I could say "Enhancer already has Force Armor, which increases your innate armor. This should be a good indication where the Innate Jedi Armor modifiers should be". Guess what? The devs designed the Jedi trees to be balanced and made it so that no Jedi can have all Jedi abilities, and did a good job at it except for Powers damage output and Force Healer.

Choose your template according to your playstyle, and if you really miss something in your template, drop something else for it.

Message Edited by Eskie on 09-09-2005 09:30 AM

enhancer allready have force defens so why should it get even more?

Yes put all the skills in the template I choose.

Defender = Defender.