Jedi Archive

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thepulse wrote:

so there

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Message Edited by MorRauko on 09-03-2005 05:13 AM

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Darth_Toast1018 wrote:
Erm no. I have read many of the EU Books. No more Sith Lords besides Vader and Sidious, but there were Dark Jedi.

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Saber_X wrote:

While their may only be only two Sith Lords up until Episode III, it is supported within the dialogue and events of the movies that there are more Sith. Here is a list of indications that there are many Sith beyond the two Sith lords Yoda referred to in Episode I spanning the entire series of movies and within the game itself.

From the Movies:

1. In the early scripts for what became Star Wars, Darth Vader was one of the Thousand Knights of the Sith, the sworn enemy of the Jedi Bendu (later simply the Jedi with Bendu finding its way into the movies presumably in the form of Obi-Wan's alias on Tatoinne).

2. Darth Vaders title is Dark Lord of the Sith. For him to be a Dark Lord of the Sith there must be other Sith for him to be lord over. He cannot be Lord of the Sith over Palpatine as Palpatine is Vaders superior.

3. Jango Fett was recruited to serve as a template for the clone army by Lord Tyrannus a decade prior to the events in Star Wars Episode II. At this time, there were already two Sith Lords, Sidious Palpatine and Maul. Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas presumably was also involved in this as someone erased the entry for Kamino from the Jedi library. That Maul and Dooku were concurrently involved with the Sith is supported in Christopher Lee's biography in which the actor attests thatDooku was to have manipulated the events leading to the confrontation between Quigon, Obi-Wan, and Maul.

4. In Episode III, when Palpatine urges Obi-Wan and Anakin to get assistance in confronting Dooku Obi-Wan replies "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords (pl) are our specialty." Since the only Sith lord that Obi-Wan and Anakin had confronted previously was Dooku, with very poor results, this indicates that Obi-Wan and Anakin had between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode III fought against other Sith against whom they were able to develop their "specialty" together. Additionally, the Sith are referred to in the plural after Dooku's death but prior to Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi. And there is a reference to a Lord Voss relevant to the Outer Rim Sieges, someone who may or may not be a Sith.

5. Even the most rigid interpretation of Yoda's comment in Episode I, that there are only two Sith, does not bind Palpatine after Episode III. It is an open question whether or not Palpatine chose to remain true to this tradition after Episode III and it is unanswered one way or the other in the movies. In fact, there is some indication that the Sith lords of the movies did share their knowledge with others more openly then many assume. General Grievous, for instance, was trained to use lightsabers, something he boastfully noted to Obi-Wan prior to their duel.

From within the game:

1. There are numerous Sith already in the game. These are Sith NPC's associated with the Aurelia quests. They are neither master nor apprentices. They are simply Sith underlings of some kind.

2. All dialogue should be given equal weight. If you must adhere to the belief that there are only two Sith because of Yoda's comment in Episode I, then by the very same logic there can be no Jedi in the game either as Yoda stated in ROTJ that Luke was the LAST OF THE JEDI. Beyond statements, there is no foundation whatsoever for bounty hunters hunting Jedi, yet this is a mechanism that has nothing to do with Star Wars that Sony chose to introduce exclusively for balancing the Jedi population. Bounty Hunters hunting Jedi was a programming choice, not something based on anything that occurred in the movies.

Additionally, there is no such thing as a "Dark" Jedi in the movie lore. The term is an oxymoron, like meat eating vegeterians. The closest thing to a "Dark" Jedi in the movies was, ever so briefly, Anakin prior to his betrayal. One might argue that even that the moment he sliced of Mace's arm he was, in effect, no longer a Jedi. There is some indication that there once were "Dark" Jedi who were the precursors to the Sith. These beings are far more unlikely then the Sith and have no logical foundation. How does one become a "Dark" Jedi if, by definition, Jedi are practitioners of the light side? I have an image of Yoda congratulating Anakin on his good "dark" deed of destroying the Jedi and conferring upon him, with distinction, the title of "Dark Jedi Master." Neither Palpatine nor Maul would have had the authority to confer this title on anyone since they themselves were never Jedi at all. It is surprising that many players have accepted this concept unquestioningly despite the inherent illogic of it based sheerly on the power of unfounded assumptions.

The way to reconcile this seems rather simple. There are are only two Sith, but the Sith Yoda was referring to were the Sith Lords that serve as the leadership of the Sith. In the present timeline, these two Sith lords are Vader and Palpatine. But just as there are other Jedi that do not sit in the Jedi council so too are there other Sith that are not Sith lords.

The core narrative element of Star Warshas always been the contrast between good and evil as symbolized by light and dark, Rebel and Empire, and Jedi and Sith. These contrasts are what define the Star Wars stories. Everything else exists within the context of these conflicts. They should be introduced into the game in a manner that is consistent with the movies, the story, and the themes of Star Wars.

Message Edited by Saber_X on 06-12-2005 09:06 PM

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Message Edited by CabraofGorath on 09-02-2005 09:44 PM