Jedi Archive
Thread: IF THE NEW FRS IS PVE I am goin to *edit* lose it.
felipz wrote:
If it's going to be pure pvp prepare for the fight club version 2.0.
QFE
I would prefer a PvE system since it would less exploitable...probably....maybe...hopefully...lol...
Wolf
Implementor wrote:
I am not nor ever have been a PvPer. It's just not my cup of tea. Jedi forced me into learning PvP and I actually enjoyed it (not lately but that's another somewhat related story) not enough to hunt it out except on a few occassions, which were a blast.
That being said, I think FRS should have a strong PvP element, very strong. Maybe some gated quests and what not (i hate quests, i've yet to do one that I enjoyed, again, 'nother story). Make it PvE and quest 5 months down the road you'll have 5000 Jedi Masters around with nothin to do.
To be honest when I first heard they were re-vamping the FRS it never occured to me that it would be non-pvp.
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-22-2005 05:43 PM
MsNiL wrote:Battlefield 2 is there for you.
ChaJomi wrote:
It only makes sense to have the frs be pvp based. If you didn't it would be the same old mindless quests that have made this game extremly tedious. Unlike questing for jedi ranks pvp would allow a system that is never set in stone. And with the numbers of jedi now the old system would probably evern work so what if there were a few who exploited to master in a hurry, the real pvpers would fill up the ranks over time and vote or fight them out.
And Knights of the Old Republic is there for you...first off, I love when ppl pull statistics completely from their nether regions. 10%? Its remarkable that these hard and fast numbers become so skewed when you disagree with someone
Also, what right do you have to tell anyone what games they should play, based on your own prejudices? Someone asked earlier what a good reason for it to be PvP based is, and surprisingly, the issue is fairness. If you are asking for a Ranking system back again (which is basically what this is all about) how is having a PvE system justice? If its a ranking system, obviously, there will be a cap on how many can attain each level. Are you telling me that he who does your random content quests the fastest wins? Bascially, you are saying to me "If you just so happen to have a few days off when the FRS comes out, and can play your little quests non-stop during that time, you can become master before anyone else!" Once a few ppl do this, spots fill up fast.Now granted, PvP is unbalanced. But at least the standards for attaining a rank can be based on more factors then who can kill a mob the fastest. PvP may not be perfect, but its a heck of a lot better for creating at least the sembelance of balanced playing field for ppl to use. Before you start forcing out the idea that a PvP based system would automatically be exploitable, look at the inadequecies inherent in a PvE one as well. And please, look beyond your own selfish desires...or, as I quoted in your response to someone else there, basically go find another game
It is true, a very minority of the server's population are PVPers, there's the same freaking people that PVP every night in the past year, THE SAME PEOPLE, at least 30-50 of them total then there's the random bypasser that jumps in for a perk of PVP then leave. I like the levelling system of KOTOR, and I'm sure many players in SWG that goes for Jedi and grinds it would love a multi-player version of that levelling system in the FRS.
And I know plenty of people that are Jedi and doesn't PVP but accepts the BH hunts, and sometimes they talk about getting into the FRS when it opens.
I am liking some of the suggestions in this thread, time gated quests and occasional PVP based quests would be nice.
Vicci A'Tivo - Elder "in your face" Bounty HunterI do not believe in PVE based FRS grinding... but I believe in PWP (Player With Player) for light side.
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
I don't look at it like this though. This is my line of thinking...
Okay, the FRS become some type of PvE quest-based system (mind you, I support this idea). So, the Jedi all happily embark upon the quests and start completing them. The Jedi who can hack it at the quests become more powerful, and thosewho cannot retain their lower ranks. I do not think power should be given freely, regardless of how the new FRS is implemented.
Now,those Jedi who have moved along in the PvE FRS will become a fairly potent combat force in both PvE and PvP (if they choose to). However, I do not see why there cannot be a "supplementary" FRS whereby those who engage in PvP have the ability to move further along the ranks (or gain additional abilities or something). Do I want these PvP Jedi to become uber-wtfpwnage-gods? No, absolutely not. However, if a FAIR, UNEXPLOITABLE, but competitive PvP system could be put in place, I see no reason as to why PvP Jedi should not be given a slight edge or be made able to advance a bit futher.
You have to look at things from both sides, and that is what I am trying to do.
For the sake of PvE Jedi, the FRS should not be entirely PvP based. PvE Jedi (the majority) would feel jipped about not being able to advance their charcters at all.
For the sake of PvP Jedi, the FRS should not be entirely PvE based. PvP Jedi would feel jipped if a PvE Jedi who has suddenly become overpowered suddenly turns into a PvPer because they now feel 1337.
I've made my point already. I agree with MSNil on a lot of what she says (about the PvP/PvE, anyway
). However, I don't think that either playstyle should be entirely alienated, although I do believe that PvE, being the majority, should likely be a large part of the new FRS. Plus, I like roleplay and storylines, so I WANT quests. Yet, having been a big time PvPer at one point, I can sympathize there as well..and see no reason why there should not be some PvP element to the FRS.
I mean...think about it...while perhaps the most important parts of being a Jedi as those of the spirit, one cannot deny that there is a LOT of combat involved. And why is that? Combat tempers the mind, body, and soul...so it's the perfect vehicle for advancement in a lot of ways.
Just my two cents...personally, I think both playstyles can/should benefit from the FRS.
No, it's not multiplayer.
Rhayven wrote:
And Knights of the Old Republic is there for you...
MsNiL wrote:
I do not believe in PVE based FRS grinding... but I believe in PWP (Player With Player) for light side.
I believe that players should be able to progress through helping otherplayers, not through quests or defeating NPC/Creatures.
The basis is: Someone elses gain is your gain.
For example, helping someone to earn experience should give you experience.
Just like the pvp system, assistance must be player-locked, meaning that gain from one specific player should start to decrease as that player grows stronger, and continued help to one single player will eventually stop you from gaining experience. Becouse of this, you are constantly forced to find new players to help.
The system should be constructed so that new players of Star Wars galaxies can early find a Light Side Jedi to aid them throughout the game. Eventually you have "helped" your guild, and is therefore forced to search beyond your guild for players to aid in their progress.
Aid such as solving quests, earning badges etc, is also counted for, up to the maximum quota.
The "source" should also be limited. Wether you aid someone in earning Rifleman XP or defeating Axva Min... Eventually you must find another field, such as training a TKA, or defeating a Gorax. Every day you may have to find something new to help with.
The "pooled" frs experience is then only earned if the player helpedmanually transfer the xp, as a way of saying thankyou.
The most experienced and friendly Light Side Jedi, with good peopleskills, with tolerance and respect to a new player, will earn ranking experience fast through this system.
A pvp version for Light Side is "Redemption" missions, tied to npc factions. For instance, if a player go down to -5000 townsperson faction and gone Spec Op recently, a Bounty Hunter-like mission is earned for a Light Side Jedi, who can then go over and "clear up the problem", which means defeating the player and "redeem" him/her. Note that I am actually suggesting forced-pvp here, although only if the player gone overt recently. Imagine that you have been grinding on yellow NPC's for awhile and then suddenly a Light Side Jedi pops up out of nowhere, andwhipes the floor with you.They do not kill you, but youmayloose a % of your money or something like that. Justice have been made. Ofcourse, the same system can be shared with Bounty Hunters, like killing a player with -5000 jabba faction.
Great ideas. I was simply using the "quest-based" FRS as an example of making the FRS not be completely PvP in nature. I do not think the FRS should be enitrely PvE based either, however, I do think certain PvE quest elements should be involved...if only at the lower/entry levels.
I speak of the need for some type of questing from the side of me that is a Roleplayer. Mind you, when I say quests, I do not mean "go here and kill this". By quest, I mean just that... a quest...something involving combat, intrigue, exploration, character interaction (player and NPC), so on and so forth. If you're likening a quest to the sad excuses that we have in this game, then yeah, I agree with you...the FRS should not be quest based. Like I said though, I want there to be actual quests that would invoke actual Jedi mythos and challenge the player on a variety of levels.
I like what you suggest because it would actally make Jedi act like Jedi. The amusing thing is that being an Imperial, I see the Rebels on my server acting more like "Sith" than the dark Jedi I fight alongside. Now there are bad apples on both sides, of course, but when it comes to Jedi I've always been of the notion that you should somehow have to emulate your chosen virtue (Light or Dark...or hopefully...Grey also).
Light Jedi should not advance in rank for committing wanton slaughter (although naturally they will have to fight in certain situations). Dark Jedi should not advance in rank if they show gross displays of charity (although certain charity may deemed appropriate at certain times...even for one of the Dark). Many people may not agree with this, but this is my opinion andconsidering that this mechanic has been used in other games, there is no reason why itcould/should not be invoked here.
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-22-2005 06:44 PM
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-22-2005 06:52 PM
The problem with quests in general, as you may know, is that people learn to optimize... like reading walkthroughs or strategies. Eventually the optimized strategies are so effective, that people have an enormous gain of frs xp.
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Great ideas. I was simply using the "quest-based" FRS as an example of making the FRS not be completely PvP in nature. I do not think the FRS should be enitrely PvE based either, however, I do think certain PvE quest elements should be involved...if only at the lower/entry levels.
I speak of the need for some type of questing from the side of me that is a Roleplayer. Mind you, when I say quests, I do not mean "go here and kill this". By quest, I mean just that... a quest...something involving combat, intrigue, exploration, character interaction (player and NPC), so on and so forth. If you're likening a quest to the sad excuses that we have in this game, then yeah, I agree with you...the FRS should not be quest based. Like I said though, I want there to be actual quests that would invoke actual Jedi mythos and challenge the player on a variety of levels.
I like what you suggest because it would actally make Jedi act like Jedi. The amusing thing is that being an Imperial, I see the Rebels on my server acting more like "Sith" than the dark Jedi I fight alongside. Now there are bad apples on both sides, of course, but when it comes to Jedi I've always been of the notion that you should somehow have to emulate your chosen virtue (Light or Dark...or hopefully...Grey also).
Light Jedi should not advance in rank for committing wanton slaughter. Dark Jedi should not adavance in rank if they show gross displays of charity. Many people may not agree with this, but this is my opinion andconsidering that this mechanic has been used in other games, there is no reason why itcould/should not be invoked here.
also why syould only the ppl with decent pre cu pearls(wich is who it would end up being in every single 1 vs encounter) be the only who get to advance in the frs? lets not kid ourselves here, temp is part of victory in pvp, skill is also a part, but not as much as some like to say, mostly its about the equipment. also with ganking rampant on overt jedi, how would you maintain rank in a pvp situation?? only go out when you have 15 of your freinds with you? folks int nt like it used to be in most 3 on 1 situation a jedi will lose, spec vs other jedi and who here has not been ganked at least once a day?if they are overt? nope dont see how it would work and be fun for everyone
MsNiL wrote:
The pvp community consists of about 5-10% of the players. Go figure.
Srider_Killarney wrote:
If the new FRS is not pvp based then I will throw in the towel, that would just be the last straw.
MsNiL wrote:
The problem with quests in general, as you may know, is that people learn to optimize... like reading walkthroughs or strategies. Eventually the optimized strategies are so effective, that people have an enormous gain of frs xp.
Automated content is predicatable, while you dont really know what will happen when you deal with another player.
So far I agree with the pvp players. It's just the killing that is radically wrong for light side Jedi, and just like you, I generally feel the Imperials have a greater and nicer community than the rebels have.
On a whole other subject, it would be really cool if they could create something like Yoda Stories in this game
Yoda Stories is an old adventure game that creates quests on-the-run, using some components. Since it's an old game without people updating it, the number of components run out eventually, so the game starts to get predictable...
The introduction to each mission was something like:
Welcome, Luke! Heard my call you did!
Long, long ago the Sith made an AMULET that can focus the Force for good or evil. Powerful it is... dangerous mmm?
When the Sith fell, the amulet was lost. Now a tremor in the Force warns me the amulet has been found on the DESERT WORLD OR BAKKAH!
IMPERIAL TROOPS have it now. Soon in Vader's hands will it be, unless you find it first!
Here, take this OBJECT... small though it is, you'll need it on your quest.
The capital parts are randomized... Could as well have been a PURSE on the FOREST MOON OF ENDOR guarded by MAROUDERS, and the OBJECT you receive is also randomized, and play a different part in each story.
Would have been nice to have mission terminals like this, with a great number of combinations, new stuff added... Perhaps you must go to Dantooine, find a randomized NPC (From Twi'Lek dancer to Naked Bothan). They will send you to a random place, such as Endor to retreive an item that may be guarded by a monster, or require you to rough up some grunts, or maybe bribe off a smuggler etc, which may lead to an intermezzo with stormtroopers, or maybe Jabba, regarding a cargo box, or maybe a pearl, that one of the grunts, or maybe monster had in posession... etc. Was that part messed up? It was intended to be, since many things could happen during the mission. When you begin, you just dont know what will happen. Maybe you will end up in a Deathwatch underground bunker on Talus, or maybe you will have to wade through a nest of Huurton Stalkers on Dantooine, or fetch an item out of Dathomir Prison.
Well..I had posted somethingon another thread, but this is almost exactly what I was suggesting. You take the quest-based FRS and make it completely random. Hundreds of possible items, locations, enemies, etc. placed upon a large number of vastly different story arcs. Even if someone managed to catalog, for example, all 100 possible story arcs, the combinations of individual quest elements would still be different for every player. Besides that...and I'm not advocating that it *should* be like this... but having a guide does not guarantee your victory. Lots of people can read up on how to solo Necrosis for example...but not everyone (even with a proper template) can actually do it.
My point here is that the player would still have to "Solve The Riddle" or kill the "Very Difficult Boss NPC", etc. Even if they knew what was coming, they would still have torely on themselves to come out on top. I would also make the quests be non-repeatable...that way there's no trail and error. If you fail, your next quest is completely different... or...at the very least, it'd be a bit different from the one you just had.
Player-on-Player FRS would be necessary I feel so as to eliminate in kind of stagnancy and retain a dynamic system. Again, I feel strongly that both PvE, PvP, and PwP as you put it could all exist under one roof. Whether or not we ever see this...is of course another story 
ChaJomi wrote:
It only makes sense to have the frs be pvp based. If you didn't it would be the same old mindless quests that have made this game extremly tedious. Unlike questing for jedi ranks pvp would allow a system that is never set in stone. And with the numbers of jedi now the old system would probably evern work so what if there were a few who exploited to master in a hurry, the real pvpers would fill up the ranks over time and vote or fight them out.
If you dont want to pvp,dont become Knight