Jedi Archive

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ShadeSwifteye wrote:

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Danielli wrote:

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MacHorst wrote:

Regarding your epiphany... This is pretty simple stuff really. There is no template available that does it all. Defender comes at a price. It is boring. It is not too powerful. If you want your jedi to be a swordsman than it is the template to play.

I am so tired of the crying within the jedi community. If you think defender is too powerful, that is your right. Go forth with your opinion and have fun. Where you cross the line is when you start crying for a nerf of a skill set you admittedly do not want to possess. You don't like defender - don't play a defender. Why do you have to ruin the game for the jedi that play defender? Why can't you enjoy your character that you built to your own specifications and be happy?

I play a different template everyday as this respec period is a great time to experiment. I am not promoting any particular template. I think that there are several viable templates for both PVE and PVP available to anyone that can open their mind. Sure there are issues to be addressed by the developers, but you can get a good feel for the capabilities of all the jedi professions right now.

Master Defender "dumbs" the game down significantly for the lesser skilled player. You will see alot of them now asdefender is by far the easiest template to play. Defenders are not invincible, they just require good strategy (and a lot of time) to kill. I will challenge you to show me one skill set in any jedi tree that does not have counter skill available. Stasis, Sap,and force drain are arguablythreeof the most powerful jedi tools available right now, and none come from Defender.

I apologize for the rant, but I would appreciate it if you would build your character however you like, and not force your unfounded presumptions on the community. I happen to know that you are exactly wrong - give me a white board and I will graph it for you.

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this sounds alot like the old Fight Club argument: "I play my account like I want" Killing herds of afk BHs is pretty boring too, but that didn't stop people from taking advantage of the system. Hmmm...now what happened to fight clubs?

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No. what he is saying is that you coming here with jedi assumptions and saying that a nerf will come is doing no good. You have given 0 solutions to this problem. Perhaps if you came with a solution to this issue instead of stating well we should "reduce damage" "make it so the bhs can only take 2-3 per mission." In the overall grand scheme that does not fix the jedi/bh issue nor does it fix defender.

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Danielli wrote:

Um I did have a solution. And they are not assumptions. I have played on both the Jedi and the BH side for a while. Get over the fact that you don't deserve to be able to kill 5 people at a time.

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ShadeSwifteye wrote:

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Danielli wrote:

Um I did have a solution. And they are not assumptions. I have played on both the Jedi and the BH side for a while. Get over the fact that you don't deserve to be able to kill 5 people at a time.

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Go read my edit and my post in the kette forums before you assum that i said i should be able to kill 5 at one time. Then we can talk about that.

On another note, im not completely knocking your solution, i am however if anything wanting a bigger revamp than a simple reduction in how many bhs can take amission or something to that sort.

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Danielli wrote:

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ShadeSwifteye wrote:

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Danielli wrote:

Um I did have a solution. And they are not assumptions. I have played on both the Jedi and the BH side for a while. Get over the fact that you don't deserve to be able to kill 5 people at a time.

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Go read my edit and my post in the kette forums before you assum that i said i should be able to kill 5 at one time. Then we can talk about that.

On another note, im not completely knocking your solution, i am however if anything wanting a bigger revamp than a simple reduction in how many bhs can take amission or something to that sort.

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I think we're mostly on the same page Shade, and I've had problems with the bh/jedi system for some time, especially with 1 billion respec BHs out there.

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We are most definitely on the same page. Ive also had problems with the system as it is. Now with the respec system, jedi using it to advance quicker than ever and normal players respecing to bh, its truly come out into the light with flaws galore.

I think more than anything is again the system needs a completerevamp , because tinkering with one thing indefinitely screws with another instead of just scrapping it altogether. But who knows the upcoming FRS could possibly solve some of this.

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Eked wrote:
any grp of 5 bh's should be able to take out a knight (master def or not)..I suggest more practice*.

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ShadeSwifteye wrote:

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Danielli wrote:

this sounds alot like the old Fight Club argument: "I play my account like I want" Killing herds of afk BHs is pretty boring too, but that didn't stop people from taking advantage of the system. Hmmm...now what happened to fight clubs?

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No. what he is saying is that you coming here with jedi assumptions and saying that a nerf will come is doing no good. You have given 0 solutions to this problem. Perhaps if you came with a solution to this issue instead of stating well we should "reduce damage" "make it so the bhs can only take 2-3 per mission." In the overall grand scheme that does not fix the jedi/bh issue nor does it fix defender.

At the same time, him stating that you should play your character and and ill play mine isnt good either. This is an mmo therefore we play together so a balance needs to come in which case it will probably start with defender and then hopefully the entire bh system instead of tinkering with bits and pieces of it.

Message Edited by ShadeSwifteye on 05-11-2005 05:26 PM

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I am no longer sure what I was saying... The jedi forum is a place where fragmented argumentation andshameless crying are commonplace. I should never have posted here. LOL

Regarding your point about my point that you should play your character and I will play mine, we have to agree to disagree on some of this. It is a MMORPG, and balance is a plus. We agree there, butI have yet to see a compelling argument to support the defender being too powerful. I have killed 2 so far with my pre-CU BH. It took 35 minutes to get the one who knew what he was doing. The other was dead quickly as he healed much more often than he needed to (obviously a respec). One of the great things about defenders is that they actually think they can beat anyone - they hardly ever go in the cantina or swim.

I have been PVPing with MPowers, MEnhancer, Healer templates mostly. I have also played several variants of the defender template. I will go back to my prior statement. All of these templates have holes in them, and contain situational advantages.No template has a clear advantage in my opinion -none justify the nerf bat. Defender is the easiest to play, but they certainly have vulnerabilities.I killed a Master Defender with a powers/enhancer template. A well rooted and drained defender does not live that long... Contrarily I have been owned by a non-jedi that knew how to kill me. Pick your poison because you cannot beat everyone with any template.

I think we agree for the most part. I am just tired of all the whining and cries for nerfs. The game isevolving rapidlyright now. I want to have fun playing the game, not get bogged down in a nerf argument. That would be a very subjective argument that we would never ever agree on. Peace!

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thecolonelcardaks wrote:

Defender is like TKM. No real damage on its own, but high defense and natural armor.

Lightsaber is like swordsman. No real defense, but lots of damage (well... you know what i mean)

healer is doctor

powers is ranged

enhancer is... crowd control i guess.

When you take defender, you skimp on alot of other abilities. Other professions gain these ridiculous defense all in one profession, defender is like 2 professions in terms of skillpoints and many more in terms of exp.

TK defense are very similar to jedi defender. If you want to have a template without any defense, you will just need to adapt your playstyle to that. Anything can be done. You dont *need* to be a tank... you can be a nuker or you can be a healer.

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KalonarT wrote:

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Eked wrote:
any grp of 5 bh's should be able to take out a knight (master def or not)..I suggest more practice*.

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Remind me again why it should take that many?

Master Bounty Hunters are like, Jedi death in Star Wars lore. Not your every day BH, true. But those like Jango, who could kill one master, but not another. Balance. An MBH with the right player behind it should be able to give a Knight with the right player behind it a run for his money - maybe not beat him, but 2 - 3 BH's against a Knight - no contest. I have witnessed 5 skilled old school BH's have a rough time handling a Jedi who used a delightful combo of all the problems listed previously.

*And hold on a sec.... are you a BH? Were you one before having a Jedi or did you get it to go pwn someone who beat your Jedi or check if you were on the terms?

And while we are on the subject of practice - don't even go there. When BH's go for practice, Jedi b*tch and whine (on the whole, obviously there are exceptions) that they are being hunted in groups! So pray do tell, where is the plus side for a BH right now?

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Drazharr wrote:

Defender isn't overpowered, MLS, Master Enhancer and Master Force Weilder are underpowered.

Stop asking for nerfs, dumbell. Jedi need help right now, not more nerfs.

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