Jedi Archive

You know, we will destroy ourselves with banter like the original post. It would be better to boost the rest, rather than strip the one.

I point the original poster to this link. Read SonGouki's reply about nerf'ing defender. (I'll repost here for those clicky challanged).

Why would they "nerf" Defender? Almost the same exact defenses can be achieved as a normal profession triple elite stacker...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Master Defender defenses (with Melee/Ranged FS lines):

• 70 Innate Jedi Armor
  
• 255 Melee Defense
  
• 235 Ranged Defense
  
• NO Weapon Defense
  
• 500 Defense from Improved Force Aura

Triple Elite Stacker (TKA + Fencer + Swordsman):

• 60 Innate TK Armor
  
• 235 Melee Defense
  
• 170 Ranged Defense
  
• 75 Unarmed Defense
  
• 500 Defense from Improved Center of Being

As you can see they're almost exactly the same, and there are many other possibilities similar to thiswith elite profession templates as well. If they "nerf" Force Defender then they'd have to go back and re-work a lot of the changes that were made toALL professions in the Combat Upgrade to balance it out.

The only real difference is Avoid Incap, but that is balanced with it's high Force cost. Force Valor as well I guess, but it onlycompliments Saber Block. You must also have at least xxx4 in the Lightsaber discipline for that to be even somewhat useful, and even then it's only good against ranged professions.

The only thing I can see really changing is perhaps tweaking the damage reduction received from Defenses versus Accuracy, but then that would be a change that universally affects the whole combat game. Technically it would balance out then...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would add one caviot to this post from SonG. The above mentions a great balance of statistics however it fails in one serious aspect. In the above suggested template comparison, the Jedi does NOT have any offensive abilities. We have to gain those through seperate methods. As can be said about healer of course. Keep this in mind the next time you want to bash a profession which you know nothing about.

Hey ashole

don't call my guildie a dumbell.

Besides, she has more sense in her pinky than most people who frequent these forums combined.

You chose not to take defender b/c you think it's boring and yet b/c a defender has a better chance against

larger groups of ppl than your template you want it nerfed. Most defenders either have no means of escaping

conflict, or have no way to heal dmg, so by choosing this template you are forced to stand your ground. So

your a tank that can withstand a good deal of dmg, but when things go south, your stuck in the meat grinder.

I assume you chose enhancer which means you DO have a means of escape as well as some cool flashy

abilities which has the potential to be greatly increased in power should you move up on the FRS (assuming

the FRS ever comes back)...a Defender get's next to nothing for going up in the FRS, again, this is a choice

and whatever template you chose, you simply have to live with.

I've tried a plethora of different templates in the two weeks of free ReSpecing and have seen first hand the pro's

and con's to each of the main "contender" templates. For you to call for a nerf on a specific template b/c in a

certain situation that temp. performs better than the temp. you decided to go with w/o taking into consideration

@ the very least the things I've mentioned above is flatout irresponsible of you imho.The cu is still much too new

for any of us to truly know how each jedi template will truly perform once the bugs are ironed out and once the "real"

BH begin working out strategies and the tourist ReSpec-BHs disappear -which, btw, I'm pretty sure are the guys your

seeing attacking a jedi in groups of 3 or 4 and losing, which would have no doubt been the same pre-cu as well. Just

like a skilled regular prof could absolutly destroy 3 or 4 first-time jedi.

That's my double spaced, unnecessarily lengthy opinion anyway...

Rev

Message Edited by RevonLuxa on 05-11-2005 02:13 PM

---

Eked wrote:

---

Danielli wrote:

why is 1.5 so bad? can kill 1 on 1 fairly easily, can kill 2 with a bit of skill or luck, yet it doesn't totally imbalance everything else

---

try fighting in a group.. you rarely get 1 on 1 in group fight.. so if its only 1.5 that means certain death if two attack you.

---

LOL -

Everytime I see people bring SonG into this kinda thing I giggle.

'He said it ain't happening, so it's not'.

Yeah, I forgot he told the devs what to do.

So much for him reminding this forum that your CU was Pub 9 and you wouldn't be touched. Worked out great, huh?

With an open mind I can say this:

Defender/MLS can easily be emulated with a TKM/Swordsman/Fencer Combo. You have Improved CoB (same as force aura) similar defenses and the damage output of swordsman.

The difference here is that Jedi are insane healers. As it should be, and as most of us have. You don't have to take tank like abilities, just like people don't have to take TKM. The difference here is that other professions still get armor without TKM and Jedi do not without defender.

Defender is NOT overpowered. It's just all Jedi have in terms of defenses. Give a TKM/Swordsman/Fencer the ability to heal like a Jedi and he will rip apart 5 ranged BH's as well. (no armor break = dead BH's)

BH's need a complimentary group, and many of them have figured this out and some will in time.

---

KalonarT wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

---

Danielli wrote:

why is 1.5 so bad? can kill 1 on 1 fairly easily, can kill 2 with a bit of skill or luck, yet it doesn't totally imbalance everything else

---

try fighting in a group.. you rarely get 1 on 1 in group fight.. so if its only 1.5 that means certain death if two attack you.

---

Pray do tell, what's the problem if you die? A lot of PVP is certain death in the CU.

---

---

Danielli wrote:

and to the long post that is too long to quote...

yes, regulars can stack professions to achieve the same defense. but they can't heal for 1500 damage on almost no timer, and they can't chuck their powerhammers 30m.

Plus, as far as I can tell, defense seems to affect damage more than it does getting hit, so those stackers are still getting rooted constantly while a defender has a 50% chance to block.

I'm not calling for a nerf in a defenders defense. But it should be just that, defense

---

---

MacHorst wrote:

Regarding your epiphany... This is pretty simple stuff really. There is no template available that does it all. Defender comes at a price. It is boring. It is not too powerful. If you want your jedi to be a swordsman than it is the template to play.

I am so tired of the crying within the jedi community. If you think defender is too powerful, that is your right. Go forth with your opinion and have fun. Where you cross the line is when you start crying for a nerf of a skill set you admittedly do not want to possess. You don't like defender - don't play a defender. Why do you have to ruin the game for the jedi that play defender? Why can't you enjoy your character that you built to your own specifications and be happy?

I play a different template everyday as this respec period is a great time to experiment. I am not promoting any particular template. I think that there are several viable templates for both PVE and PVP available to anyone that can open their mind. Sure there are issues to be addressed by the developers, but you can get a good feel for the capabilities of all the jedi professions right now.

Master Defender "dumbs" the game down significantly for the lesser skilled player. You will see alot of them now asdefender is by far the easiest template to play. Defenders are not invincible, they just require good strategy (and a lot of time) to kill. I will challenge you to show me one skill set in any jedi tree that does not have counter skill available. Stasis, Sap,and force drain are arguablythreeof the most powerful jedi tools available right now, and none come from Defender.

I apologize for the rant, but I would appreciate it if you would build your character however you like, and not force your unfounded presumptions on the community. I happen to know that you are exactly wrong - give me a white board and I will graph it for you.

---

---

Eked wrote:

---

KalonarT wrote:

---

Eked wrote:

---

Danielli wrote:

why is 1.5 so bad? can kill 1 on 1 fairly easily, can kill 2 with a bit of skill or luck, yet it doesn't totally imbalance everything else

---

try fighting in a group.. you rarely get 1 on 1 in group fight.. so if its only 1.5 that means certain death if two attack you.

---

Pray do tell, what's the problem if you die? A lot of PVP is certain death in the CU.

---

Umm.. the whole point is not to die in pvpor am I missing your point.

---

Actually you do it to fight. If you don't wanna die you don't declare, get on the terms, or become a Knight.

It's really that simple. Fighting leads to death. Death leads to cloning. Cloning leads to - nothing. Something a lot of people forget.

I mean, honestly - Jedi is the only profession to have great skills to avoid or escape PVP (unless you count burst run and feign death) - but they are used for the wrong reasons.

Avoid incap should be a 'I really need to get out of here but i'm gunna die ifI don't use this skill while making a dash for it' kinda thing. It's not. It's the furthest thing from. I can see them removing damage done when avoiding incap, just like Force run.

Then there's the delightful force run. Run in. Throw saber. Run out. Run in. Throw saber. Run out. Rinse and repeat and pat your crotch as you giggle.

Stealth is just a joke. I can understand being able to stealth out in the wilderness, one or two guys perception being altered by the force. But uh, it doesn't work on droids. Thus, my little bomb droid should have no problem nuking your stealthed ass, and my combat probot could detect you for me.

---

Danielli wrote:

this sounds alot like the old Fight Club argument: "I play my account like I want" Killing herds of afk BHs is pretty boring too, but that didn't stop people from taking advantage of the system. Hmmm...now what happened to fight clubs?

---

Message Edited by ShadeSwifteye on 05-11-2005 05:26 PM