Jedi Archive

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_Cicero_ wrote:

You want us to not be able to clone.. so when we die you can camp our bodies.... no sorry bro try again.... how about nerfing heals like they nerf jedi. Start with that when i jedi can take 3 Bh's 3 vs 1 or the tef system comes back maybe you idea can come into perspective

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/agreed

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No deseart until you eat your vegetables!!

"MBH MPist REB" NO.

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MikeHeXt wrote:
"MBH MPist REB" NO.

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that sums up the entire argument doesn't it?

it's not about what is posted, it's who posts it, right?

what is your opinion on the actual idea MikeHeXt?

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Mortanos wrote:
Early in SWG's conception there was the idea that jedi could not clone (perma-death).
Why would the Empire allow masses of jedis to clone when the Imperial Policy dictates the extinction of the jedi? Sounds like a contradiction. All jedi clone data would be deleted.

Since non-cloning was associated with perma-death it was thrown out at the same time as perma death. I suggest we introduce the non-cloning status, but not perma-death. This means that Jedis will not be able to clone from cloning facilities (NPC or PC city based), instead they can spawn at any of the force shrines on the planet. Instead of Insurance terminals, there could be some holocron by the shrine which asks if you would like your status recorded (insured). Jedi would also suffer wound damage as if they didn't clone.

This idea would make sense plot-wise and would be a good mechanism for balancing jedi with the other professions without nerfing a jedi's ability.
This would also help make Jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be. Instead of just giving elite skills, it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity.

PS I wanted to post this idea in the jedi forums, to see the jedi populations opinion on the matter and possible compromises/edits this community can offer. It may seem radical, but remember the game started with perma-death which is far more radical. Jedi's isn't just another profession, it takes time and paitience to earn. So why should it be played like some other common profession? If this idea was going to be introduced Live, then it would be included with the FRS Release.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 11:54 AM

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Always thought this would make a lot more sense.

btw bugs associated with force shrines would be fixed before this is initiated

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Quiet420 wrote:

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TYR2100 wrote:


Hi,

Actually I think you're missing the point of the clone centers. Clone centers were put in for gameplay reasons and not specifically for the SWG universe [remember even in the movies and EU not everyone had access to the cloning center]. The reason they put the clone center in was to justfy a player being able to continue to play after they die without loosing everything [since wwe don't have a save button]as well as maintain a certian level of believability in a virtual world. Just FYI.

GL,
Tyr2100

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good point....what they need to do is remove Cloning for all characters altogether and put friggin bacta tanks in.....It's completely irresponsible that cloning (which was officially outlawed, and to my knoweldge only available to a select few, like palpatine) take the place of bacta tanks.

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I can't tell whether you're joking or not, but bacta tanks would definetly fit continuty better. Luke used one after being incapped/slain on Hoth.

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SiNNaTaS wrote:

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Mortanos wrote:
Early in SWG's conception there was the idea that jedi could not clone (perma-death).
Why would the Empire allow masses of jedis to clone when the Imperial Policy dictates the extinction of the jedi? Sounds like a contradiction. All jedi clone data would be deleted.

Since non-cloning was associated with perma-death it was thrown out at the same time as perma death. I suggest we introduce the non-cloning status, but not perma-death. This means that Jedis will not be able to clone from cloning facilities (NPC or PC city based), instead they can spawn at any of the force shrines on the planet. Instead of Insurance terminals, there could be some holocron by the shrine which asks if you would like your status recorded (insured). Jedi would also suffer wound damage as if they didn't clone.

This idea would make sense plot-wise and would be a good mechanism for balancing jedi with the other professions without nerfing a jedi's ability.
This would also help make Jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be. Instead of just giving elite skills, it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity.

PS I wanted to post this idea in the jedi forums, to see the jedi populations opinion on the matter and possible compromises/edits this community can offer. It may seem radical, but remember the game started with perma-death which is far more radical. Jedi's isn't just another profession, it takes time and paitience to earn. So why should it be played like some other common profession? If this idea was going to be introduced Live, then it would be included with the FRS Release.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 11:54 AM

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I dont have an issue with the idea it seems fine but I would like a little more info on how this would "balance jedi" and "make jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be".

Also your statement "it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity" not sure how that would be true.. You have not stated that there will be xp lose for being killed. So your proposed system would be the same as the current system.

You make these three points but then never elaborate on them. I trully do not see how forcing jedi to use force shrines will balance, improve, or up the maturity of jedi.

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Right now if a jedi dies they spawn at a nearby cloning center. Most PvP battles are centered around cloning centers actually, because it is easy for peopl to get right back into the combat. If a jedi had to spawn at a force shrine, then they would have to travel a good distance to reach a PvP battle. Non-jedi on the otherhand spawn at the battlefield basically.

Right now since jedi and non-jedi reach the battlefield at the same frequency, the two categories are made to display similar combat effectiveness. So jedi basically = 1.5non-jedi, sometimes less depending on the non-jedi's equipment/template. Since there is such a tight ratio, small factors (bugs, like current Ruby Biel usage) can tip the balance. The devs may have intended an equal balance, but since the players are so resourceful and intuitive they find away around this tight balance. This balance tip leads to a nerf cascade. If jedi had to travel greater distances then the quantity of time spent on the batllefield would decrease. In order to balance this out, the quality of the time for jedi would have to increase. Jedi can now be > 1.5 non-jedi ability. Since this would be released with coordination with the FRS, some jedi would be even more powerful when compared to non-jedi. In this system, there is more room for bugs like the stim/ruby biel. Also since jedi's would suffer from greater wounds after death, there may be a reason to take up force wound healing lol.

Alot of people have become bored with SWG because they don't seem to matter in PvP. Supposedly numbers dictaate the battle, so if jedi didn't have to be regulated to the same ability of a non-jedi we could seem some stronger chars. These chars could be the major forces that determine the outcome of a battle. The game would have an added adrenaline rush and people may have more fun = decline in subscription cancelations.

Jedi would require more maturity because of the extra downtime. Why PvP with a jedi when I can constantly battle with my non-jedi alt. So people who only see jedi as a means to an end will de-emphasize their jedi char, and pursue other options. The jedi system requires a lot of patience to earn a jedi, but once you earn/grind the jedi it's smooth sailing. This causes a lack of responsibility seen in a few full temp jedi. The requirement for patience should not just be limited to the grind.

And regarding your comments on cloning, TYR2100. The jedi still have the "save" function present in cloning; they just spawn at a different place. The devs (notsure if the same devs are working on the game now...) placed the force shrines to compensate for this early on when developing the jedi system. So the idea was around, they were just afraid of stepping on too many toes so the use of shrines was practically deleted/made useless.

SWG, is a game, not real, logic is not spoken here.. LOL

You want it realistic, then have ALL players face perma death. They they'll all hang out in the sp's sitting and talking quietly.

LOL

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Mortanos wrote:
Early in SWG's conception there was the idea that jedi could not clone (perma-death).
Why would the Empire allow masses of jedis to clone when the Imperial Policy dictates the extinction of the jedi? Sounds like a contradiction. All jedi clone data would be deleted.

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Clones in general were outlawed at this time...soooo if we wanna go down that old cannon route again, ALL clones go.

Not a bad idea.