Jedi Archive

Themeatically, what your proposing makes sense. But in game really all it does is add a minor annoyance factor to Jedi. Theres really no point for this.

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Mortanos wrote:
Early in SWG's conception there was the idea that jedi could not clone (perma-death).
Why would the Empire allow masses of jedis to clone when the Imperial Policy dictates the extinction of the jedi? Sounds like a contradiction. All jedi clone data would be deleted.

Since non-cloning was associated with perma-death it was thrown out at the same time as perma death. I suggest we introduce the non-cloning status, but not perma-death. This means that Jedis will not be able to clone from cloning facilities (NPC or PC city based), instead they can spawn at any of the force shrines on the planet. Instead of Insurance terminals, there could be some holocron by the shrine which asks if you would like your status recorded (insured). Jedi would also suffer wound damage as if they didn't clone.

This idea would make sense plot-wise and would be a good mechanism for balancing jedi with the other professions without nerfing a jedi's ability.
This would also help make Jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be. Instead of just giving elite skills, it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity.

PS I wanted to post this idea in the jedi forums, to see the jedi populations opinion on the matter and possible compromises/edits this community can offer. It may seem radical, but remember the game started with perma-death which is far more radical. Jedi's isn't just another profession, it takes time and paitience to earn. So why should it be played like some other common profession? If this idea was going to be introduced Live, then it would be included with the FRS Release.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 11:54 AM

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I dont have an issue with the idea it seems fine but I would like a little more info on how this would "balance jedi" and "make jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be".

Also your statement "it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity" not sure how that would be true.. You have not stated that there will be xp lose for being killed. So your proposed system would be the same as the current system.

You make these three points but then never elaborate on them. I trully do not see how forcing jedi to use force shrines will balance, improve, or up the maturity of jedi.

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JBushesq wrote:
Themeatically, what your proposing makes sense. But in game really all it does is add a minor annoyance factor to Jedi. Theres really no point for this.

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it may seem like an annoyance, but really it is an investment for the jedi community.
Right now everyone whines about jedi, because they see them everywhere all-the-time. In a battle what team will dominate the group of non-jedis? or the group of jedis?
jedis usually and this point annoys most non-jedi. This is why you always hear the whining about the fall of the GCW and the birth of the Jedi Wars. Now what if jedis weren't constantly seen?
Under my system there would be a lag time between the amount of time a jedi is spawned and seen on the battlefield, while non-jedi basically spawn at the battlefield. The pressence of non-jedi will be more noticeable.
This 'annoyance' will give jedis more freedom in the "nerf" perspective and if the system actually works then jedi will be able to ask for greater abilities.

So this idea should be seen as a skillpoints issue.
would you rather spend skill points on easy-time efficient cloning?
or would you rather spend skill points on combat effectiveness?

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SikrouDeco wrote:
SWG, is a game, not real, logic is not spoken here.. LOL

You want it realistic, then have ALL players face perma death. They they'll all hang out in the sp's sitting and talking quietly.

LOL

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actually, perma-death isn't reinitiated.

This is intended mostly as a gameplay balance as an alternative to ability nerfing or non-jedi ability buffing.

Skraak, actually this isn't canon-based. Game-wise, jedis weren't meant to use clone centers. That is why we have force shrines to begin with. But later on jedis were given access to clonecenters because it emphasized the fact that there was no perma-death.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 03:06 PM

Add shrines to mustafar and kashyyyk, then give us some of our old power back. Then fine. I'll run an extra 2k. Having my 85% saber block again would be nice.

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metrical wrote:

Heres what the devs could do....put more use to force shrines!

-The multiple force shrines on each planet could be made into PvP battlefields. Each Jedi could meditate there which would flag them for PvP against all other Jedi who have meditated there for a 200 m or so radius around the shrine, where they can all attack eachother.

-Once there is only one Jedi standing, they become the owner of the shrine. Each shrine can be fought over once every week, so the Jedi doesnt need to constantly camp it.

-All Jedi start with one shrine, but it is on a random planet and they must clone there every time they die until a new shrine is won.

-Jedi would no longer be able to clone in regular cloning facilities, as the Empire would have erased their data.

-FIX THE FORCE SHRINE BUGS!!! I cloned at one of mine and ended up with a cybernetic arm, but I still had my cloak equipped and had to log in and out to be able to move again. This has happened to me multiple times.

Just an idea, so dont flame me if you dont like it

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Sounds like an idea.
so at these battlefields, is ownership contested for whether it is light or darkside affiliated? or individual ownership?

another issue is that this segregates jedi and non-jedi PvP. Some people would like this segregation, while others would not.
For example right now since most jedi are on Mustafar, the Dant. MO has become a ghost town, and many non-jedis are hurt by this. Believe it or not a large amount of the player base is jedi.

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Yardbomb wrote:
Add shrines to mustafar and kashyyyk, then give us some of our old power back. Then fine. I'll run an extra 2k. Having my 85% saber block again would be nice.

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Of course this fix wont allow jedis to be "overpowered", there would just be more room for power. If you want even more power, then more drastic changes would be in order. For example if jedi gave up the right to insure items, then they could have a lot more power afforded to them. I don't think the jedi population would be down with that though.

If perma-death was re-initiated, then the jedi would have to be godly lol....but the chances of seeing this happen are pretty close to zero.

By looking at your cancelometer in your sig...what's there to lose?

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 03:29 PM

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Mortanos wrote:

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JBushesq wrote:
Themeatically, what your proposing makes sense. But in game really all it does is add a minor annoyance factor to Jedi. Theres really no point for this.

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it may seem like an annoyance, but really it is an investment for the jedi community.
Right now everyone whines about jedi, because they see them everywhere all-the-time. In a battle what team will dominate the group of non-jedis? or the group of jedis?
jedis usually and this point annoys most non-jedi. This is why you always hear the whining about the fall of the GCW and the birth of the Jedi Wars. Now what if jedis weren't constantly seen?
Under my system there would be a lag time between the amount of time a jedi is spawned and seen on the battlefield, while non-jedi basically spawn at the battlefield. The pressence of non-jedi will be more noticeable.
This 'annoyance' will give jedis more freedom in the "nerf" perspective and if the system actually works then jedi will be able to ask for greater abilities.

So this idea should be seen as a skillpoints issue.
would you rather spend skill points on easy-time efficient cloning?
or would you rather spend skill points on combat effectiveness?

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But what your proposing, while it will add a little bit of lag, it will not have the far reaching effects that you seem to think. Nor would this constitue a signifigant drawback in order to beef up the power of a Jedi, as 2 or 4k is nothing at all, maybe a 5min bike ride tops. I've been in battles that last hours. One or two jedi taking a 5min break every so once and a while will not reduce the number of jedi in the battle. Furthermore, a lot of the time if your in a good group you'll be able to be rezzed.

And what happens if your with an all Jedi group and everyone goes down...you all clone at the shame shrine and regoup the exact same way you would if a full group dies as it stands now.

Not to knock your Idea too much, it just seems like your advocating something that is so minor as to not result in any increased power for jedi, have minimal effect for general players at best. And is once again needlessly irksome for a Jedi.

Message Edited by JBushesq on 11-01-2005 05:01 PM

it's hard to see the full impact without trying it. You could be right, possibly the effect would be too subtle. But the chance of it having an effect would be too great to not consider.
The problem is that this (and many other fixes) can't be properly tested until it goes live.

If this didn't work then we could always take away the ability to insure items for jedi....that would definetly have a profound effect lol.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 04:05 PM

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 04:06 PM

Interesting ideas. I always thought that jedi were supposed to be more powerful than other people so it seems ok for them to have more power ingame. Balancing out that with a travel time would be ok I guess as it would allow non jedi a chance to work on base takedown while the jedi were gone.

I think pvp is kind of pointless unless you are taking out a base. Bases are the current way to measure the galactic war.

Watching the star wars movies and how the jedi - bh battles went I'm amazed that the bh ever had a chance to defeat a jedi. Modeling that in game would mean that the jedi should be very tough to take out. Balancing that out with a 5 minute travel time to get back into combat seems like an ok way to go.

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Mortanos wrote:
Early in SWG's conception there was the idea that jedi could not clone (perma-death).
Why would the Empire allow masses of jedis to clone when the Imperial Policy dictates the extinction of the jedi?Sounds like a contradiction. All jedi clone data would be deleted.

Since non-cloning was associated with perma-death it was thrown out at the same time as perma death. I suggest we introduce the non-cloning status, but not perma-death. This means that Jedis will not be able to clone from cloning facilities (NPC or PC city based), instead they can spawn at any of the force shrines on the planet. Instead of Insurance terminals, there could be some holocron by the shrine which asks if you would like your status recorded (insured). Jedi would also suffer wound damage as if they didn't clone.

This idea would make sense plot-wise and would be a good mechanism for balancing jedi with the other professions without nerfing a jedi's ability.
This would also help make Jedi the elite class it was envisioned to be. Instead of just giving elite skills, it would be suited for those with paitence and maturity.

PS I wanted to post this idea in the jedi forums, to see the jedi populations opinion on the matter and possible compromises/edits this community can offer. It may seem radical, but remember the game started with perma-death which is far more radical. Jedi's isn't just another profession, it takes time and paitience to earn. So why should it be played like some other common profession? If this idea was going to be introduced Live, then it would be included with the FRS Release.

Message Edited by Mortanos on 11-01-2005 11:54 AM

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I had to edit this, because I misread something. This is talking about bringing back an old system, and the system is already pretty messed up. I wouldn't mind having shrines on mustafar, I refuse to go there and become a cash cow for some lucky BH.

It would be a good idea if the devs decided to fix something, because that would leave room for change. But at this time I don't believe that's possible.

Message Edited by BeefStoo on 11-01-2005 08:32 PM