Jedi Archive
Thread: DEVs are listening Describe how a snare on Cloak will be bad
It is ruining the content of others.
Please make it so Jedi can't use it in the DWB to exploit loot, and can't use it as a perma escape mechanism.
If these things are done the fine.
Otherwise, nerf it to hell for all I care at this point.
Balance, we all get balanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your turn.
Using Cloak is a form of a Jedi Mind Trick. Basically you are using the Force to trick people into not seeing you. I personally dont see it as an Alpha Strike mechanism but more of a defensive one. It can be incorporated into a true Alpha Strike mechanism but is not one alone.
Using an attack SHOULD break it. Any action used (opening containers, looting, traveling) should increase the Force drain experienced from using it. Maybe double the drain compared to being around 1 person while cloaked. Currently, (if I am correct), the more people (players or NPC's) that are close by will incrementally increase the Force used while using the skill. Bottom line, Cloak should be a defensive mechanism in the Force tree just as all other Jedi trees have some form of defensive skill.
I have to say I agree w/ "grayoberon". Removing skills that allow for dif. play styles hurts the game as a whole. I am a cloak user. Personally it's the only "Jedi" power I think that is left. I understand the problems created w/ any alpha class in an online game. I just don't think these changes will actually solve anything in the long term. From the previous posts, I'd like to mention a few things.
Cloak as an alpha strike, if snare is added, is just not possible. With the server performance post-cu lag seems much worse, and many a times ppl slide around, jump, etc. It's already hard being a melee player in a game that went to ranged.
I completly agree that you balance (Wow I hate that word now) you need to fix things like healing others while cloaked, looting, etc. But I feel the proposed changes go a bit too far. Another poster mentioned trying to alpha strike when you'd have no healing/def skills active. It pretty much destroys the sneak attack right there. Snare of course just magnifies it. Many players have commented on the "dumbed down" feeling the CU added to this game. I just think crippling one of the few unique skills to come from the CU is a mistake. Ok, yes it's not only being used as an alpha-strike skill. But don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You guys stumbled onto something interesting. Killing it shouldn't be your 1st response.
As another player already pointed out. The ppl that are "exploiting" this skill to bypass game mechs, will smiply jump ship to M.Enhancer. Toss on some dodge food maybe some steak and FR3 past even the hardest creatures.
Again touching apon what grayoberon said. I would love to see cloak have mods like mask sent for PvE. You go into a place to loot somehting and it's packed to the brim w/ guards, they're gonna notice. The problem I see w/ the post is it's idealistic. I would absolutly love to see that type of commitment from the Dev team to making this game worthy of the Star Wars name. I jsut don't see it happening. As another person commented and you can clearly see from the patches track record. The current Dev team would much rather copy and paste current game mechs to "fix or balance" the problem. Rather than have to recode an entire skill.
I could go on for hours, but I'll rap it up. I think Cloak needs some fixes. For overall game health I think any interaction w/ others should break cloak (trading ??), you should not be able to loot while cloaked. I'd love to see grayoberon's proposed idea get in, but it's not gonna happen here at SOE. As far as a snare. it's going to totally desroy the skill. You wont be able to sneak up or out. Basically you'll be able to watch from the sidelines. If they do add snare, you should just remove the force cost, other than activation costs. I would be ok w/ some sort of cooldown timer, 30-45secs or so, inline w/ other timers. I think testing options like these would solve the problem.
Guess I'll just wait and see. Sadly it's these "balances" that drive ppl from the game. This used to be so much more indepth. I can't say as I understood every aspect of the pre-cu game, but that was ok. Watching the balancing is like watch a kid make oatmeal. They add two packets, then some water, Opps, too much water, add another packet, repeat. By the time they have the oatmeal "balanced" they could feed the whole nieghborhood.
SOE please don't take the easy way out. Please notice that something you didn't intend has happened, and that isn't always a bad thing. Promote more complex combat, not toe to toe slug fests. They get boring much quicker and ppl leave.
dbl post***
Message Edited by SnakePlissken00 on 09-22-2005 01:47 PM
mindspat wrote:
No flames and no nerfTrollers please.
Post: How snare will ruin game play for users of Cloak.
Keep it short, or long, while maintaining the OP please. Tell everyone who it will ruin the skill and use to use it in the game.
Thanks in advance.
I have no Powers at all butI do think this will be a poor idea.
Cloaking is for a suprise attack and evading the enemy and should not be nerfed. Otherwise you erase the chance of evasion.
However, I do think that area attack should inflict damage to cloaked Jedi. I feel cloaking is a "Jedi mind trick" of sorts and not really invisiblity.
Eveliddia wrote:
Cloak needs to be seperate from Stealth/camo/hiding/holo machine ranger thing, two seperate sytems with seperate rules.
A higher force cost plus an added mind cost determined by the number and proximity of non-grouped players/npc's/creatures.
With added mind cost and higher FC cloakers will have to choose good times and places to cloak
not just run around the galaxy always cloaked as they would have no force or mind to fight with.
Fix the issues that you mention in this thread.
Any action not performed on self such as healing or transfering force to others, using terminals or looting breaks cloak.
Healing ones' self or channeling force to ones' self should not break cloak as channeling will weaken
the cloakers health and already diminishing mind and action creating it's own balance.
NPC's should not acknowledge the existance of a cloaker until he/she uncloaks
Aggro should drop as soon as a cloaker is able to cloak again, eliminating the biggest misuse of
the cloaking skill.
Cloakers should not be snared as they are not sneaking or hiding in shadows/camo/holo machine.
This is main reason Cloak and Ranger Stealth need to be seperate rule sets, a ranger is hiding
or blending into his/her surrounding giving them reason to move slower(snared), but the Jedi
Cloak is the clouding of the mind, fast movement should not break the jedis' hold on the mind.
A one minute or so cool down time before the Jedi can cloak again after uncloaking would be acceptable.
As would increasing the proximity hinderance to 50m instead of 20m.
If the HIGHER FORCE COST & ADDED MIND COST are put into effect then cloak will essentialy balance itself as its'
over use will drain the Jedis' mind and force severely weakening them.
These are the ways that Force Cloak should be "fixed", but if the DEV's true intentions of cloak is a first strike skill then they have a major job ahead of them, making Master Force Weilders powerful enough to bother attacking. As your proposed system has it, 0400 powers paired with Master Lightsabers or Master Defender is the only way cloak can be used as you "intended".
As there are many ways to stop a cloaker from cloaking,(KD,Root,Blind,Stasis) there is no reason it should not be an escape skill as well. Adding Dizzy,Stun and Intimidate to the list of cloak hindering states should balance this to everyones' liking.
I truely believe that all the community feedback surrounding cloak will not only be laid to rest, but if my proposal becomes reality, will be applauded. I have only voiced my opinion on two subjects in these forums, one being the XP nerf, the other being Cloak. I have thought this through and have read all the post dealing with cloak that I could find. I feel that I have taken everyones' thoughts into consideration and come up with the correct "fix". Please read this and bring it to the Dev teams' attention as sometimes the simplest fix could be very easily overlooked.
Thank You
A Very Concerned Customer
Would just like to point out another well thought out post. I think the cloak issues require an intelligent response. SOE, you have a real opportunity here to make this game more than it is. That being said I don't see this happening. The CU has done nothing but point out how ready the Dev team is to use the same programming/rules for similar skills. I completly agree this needs another look and then some communication w/ the Jedi community.
Finally.......
I have posted this thought everywhere I can for over a week and you are probably the first to read it and actually think about it.
TYVM
Guess your saber will need a balance pass before FRS then, eh? Will that be your turn then? Doesn't feel good when someone turns back on you doesn't it triplejacko. I recall a thread where you were crying they might "nerf" your pearls.
Some more of that double standards crap again. You're just like a broken record aren't you?
Cloak needs the following two fixes to solve problems:
- The Aggro bug that has existed from day one needs to be fixed, if it can't see you it shouldn't aggro you.
- Interaction with other players/world objects (Terminals, Loot Boxes, et al.) need to break cloak.
Take the lazy way out the devs did...
triplejacko wrote:
CLoak Needs a nerf really badly.
It is ruining the content of others.
Please make it so Jedi can't use it in the DWB to exploit loot, and can't use it as a perma escape mechanism.
If these things are done the fine.
Otherwise, nerf it to hell for all I care at this point.
Balance, we all get balanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your turn.