Jedi Archive
Thread: The true uber template in the game now is nolonger Jedi.
i never said melee stackers deserve power, i said jedi dont deserve to go gank anyone anytime cause the risk is gone. honestly there are to many melee professions in a game based on star wars for my taste. when ya watch the movies only the jedi fought melee. everyone else pulled a blaster. jedi should be king of the mountain with everyone carring a blaster next. melee should be the poor fool we all laugh at.
but i see way to many post on these furoms whining that jedi deserve all the godly powers but want absolutly no risk whatsoever. sorry but for the game to be able to be fun for all conserned then jedi either need to be equal or at the very least have some sever risk with the power they deserve.
sorry but until risk is brought back jedi needs to stay nerfed down to the level it is currently at.
Pistols: Speed 100, Accuracy 290, MDefense 185, RDefense 200
Rifles: Speed 85, Accuracy 335, MDefense 155, RDefense 170
Adv Rapid, Adv Quick Draw, Imp Head, Imp Leg, Imp Body, Imp Sniper, Imp Scatter, Ranged & Placed
Imp Full Auto, Imp Fan
Adv Suppression, Adv Stopping, Adv Firearm Strike, Imp Charge, Imp Crippling, Imp Disarming, Imp Burst, Aim, Intimidate, Warning
Dmg 424-1061, Spd 2.2, Acc 16, Wnd 28.75%, SAC 73
Custom-80%: 2% speed, 5% Crit Hit
BDps 336.83 Unpup'd
I use a good strongTrando Riflewhen I need more range (512 Min and 589 ModDPS w/ pu), and aKash Striker (690 ModDPS w/pu)for close in kinetic/acid.
actually you'd do better with tkm 0100/master swords/0040pikes/4004 doc
This gives them all the stuff you liked in your temp + improved Cob and sword flurry... more def than an Mdefender, better damage than MLS, better healing than 4000healer, no force bar, and a speed AND damage debuff, throw that in 75% ab sliced armor with a 1300ish powerhammer and life gets intresting.
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Eisei wrote:
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
SageEidolon wrote:
They still can not throw their weapon. They can nto hit anything outside 5m...except for Lunge which is lame.
Awww...too bad. Imagine that...melee being restricted by range? Try lugging around a 5 meter sword...I'd like to see that...much less wielding it...melee range is fine at 5 meters.
And to the OP's post, yeah these melee stackers DO need to be nerfed. The CU was supposed to put an end to this crap and balance everything around Jedi functioning as the alpha class...and we all know how well that went.
I dunno if you know this but Jedi were NOT tested for the CU...
The CU was supposed to put an end to the melee wars...which it did in all honesty. They may still be powerful but there are A LOT more ranged players out there then before.
Note the key word in my post... "supposed". I know it did not, hence my further thoght.
The only think CU did was turn virtually every melee template into the same template. I notice more people toting around guns now, but I still see plenty of melee. So maybe it's different on your server, but I personally see little change.
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-12-2005 11:10 AM
Eisei wrote:
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Eisei wrote:
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
SageEidolon wrote:
They still can not throw their weapon. They can nto hit anything outside 5m...except for Lunge which is lame.
Awww...too bad. Imagine that...melee being restricted by range? Try lugging around a 5 meter sword...I'd like to see that...much less wielding it...melee range is fine at 5 meters.
And to the OP's post, yeah these melee stackers DO need to be nerfed. The CU was supposed to put an end to this crap and balance everything around Jedi functioning as the alpha class...and we all know how well that went.
I dunno if you know this but Jedi were NOT tested for the CU...
The CU was supposed to put an end to the melee wars...which it did in all honesty. They may still be powerful but there are A LOT more ranged players out there then before.
Note the key word in my post... "supposed". I know it did not, hence my further thoght.
The only think CU did was turn virtually every melee template into the same template. I notice more people toting around guns now, but I still see plenty of melee. So maybe it's different on your server, but I personally see little change.
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-12-2005 11:10 AM
Same melee temps?
On my server I've seen melee temps of different kinds. Mine myself before my main was a jedi, I had a temp of TKM/MFencer/4040 med ((With force sensative of course)). The one I plan my alt to have is TKM/MFencer/((Defense tree)) Swords/((Defense Tree)) Pikeman. When it comes to others I have seen TKM/MSwords/Pikeman/etc, MSwords/MBrawler/etc, MPike/MBrawler/Swords/Etc, as well as a few who took their template after mine and there are still other temps.
And as for ranged. Dunno about you but I see MANY MANY guns a blazing ((Not more then sabers of course))whenever I watch my friends PvP in the GCW so maybe your server just sucks and have nothing but single minded people
The CU centered its focus around the general professions and not alpha class. I dunno why you "Supposedly" thought it centered around Jedi. During TC, sure I saw Jedi but not enough to consider them as the central focus =). I DID see ranged and gunman as far as the eye could see with around 10 melee at most ((While only 3 or 4 of them including myself were the only ones who knew how to make melee work at the time)). I just want to know why you thought the central focus of the CU was Jedi. If that were the case then the TC-CU should have been flooded with Jedi but yet it wasn't really.
Jedi were supposedly balanced for the CU about 6 months prior to its going live, and Jedi toons other than 2 or 3 testers were not allowed on TC for the CU.
The Devs actually stated a long time back that Jedi was supposed to be 1.5 times as strong, that's where all that comes from. It's not at all that strong unless you're going to cherry-pick the comparisons, and I think it's pretty evident they don't have any intention of making it stronger.
Regardless of the reasons, the old Jedi ways are gone and more and more Jedi is just another profession. I'd be very surprised if Jedi receives any kind of "loving" in the future. It's going to get weaker and weaker and easier and easier to get over time because to SOE's thinking, that makes the profession more accessible and therefore more marketable. And guess what something being more marketable equals? Yes, more money.
Eisei wrote:
Same melee temps?
On my server I've seen melee temps of different kinds. Mine myself before my main was a jedi, I had a temp of TKM/MFencer/4040 med ((With force sensative of course)). The one I plan my alt to have is TKM/MFencer/((Defense tree)) Swords/((Defense Tree)) Pikeman. When it comes to others I have seen TKM/MSwords/Pikeman/etc, MSwords/MBrawler/etc, MPike/MBrawler/Swords/Etc, as well as a few who took their template after mine and there are still other temps.
Not on my server. The predominant template is the one that was discussed in this thread, or slight variations thereof. I know one person who is an actual pure Pikeman/Swordsman. You see a lot of CL 73's running around, and they've all got Sith Blades, so it doesn't take a rocket scienetist to figure out what they're using. Can't even tell you the last time I've seen a Fencer...that actively participated in PvP anyway.
And as for ranged. Dunno about you but I see MANY MANY guns a blazing ((Not more then sabers of course))whenever I watch my friends PvP in the GCW so maybe your server just sucks and have nothing but single minded people
Good..there should be a lot of guns. This is Star Wars...not WoW. And I won't dispute you in the least about your statement about the server...lol
The CU centered its focus around the general professions and not alpha class. I dunno why you "Supposedly" thought it centered around Jedi. During TC, sure I saw Jedi but not enough to consider them as the central focus =). I DID see ranged and gunman as far as the eye could see with around 10 melee at most ((While only 3 or 4 of them including myself were the only ones who knew how to make melee work at the time)). I just want to know why you thought the central focus of the CU was Jedi. If that were the case then the TC-CU should have been flooded with Jedi but yet it wasn't really.
Okay, now you're going to stop twisting my words around and listen. You are correct, the CU was about fixing/improving/balancing the standard professions. However, in the original "blueprint" of the CU, Jedi was going to be used as the "benchmark" by which all the other professions would be built. How do I know this? A very reliable source told me that this was the original method they were originally (such as the Alpha testing that never happened)using for the CU. And guess what? It would make perfect sense, as they would set the precedent with Jedi and then retool the other professions around the alpha class. Did they do this? That I cannot say, but I know that this was one of, if not the original method they were going to use for the CU. I know the CU was not about Jedi, but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to implement it without including Jedi. And therein is the explanation of my statement...if that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what will.
And you're right about TC...there was a lot of ranged. Then people figured out that melee was still overpowered to the point on unbalance and suddenly we're back to barbarian swords.
I have been in many spin grps with ranged and melee non-jedis, anyone with an AOE attack. So either make all professions take 380m weapon exp or take all AOE attacks away form non-jedis or Make Jedis as intended the most powerful most deserved profession. Simply put, anyone that is saying Jedi Full Temp is easy to get is not telling the turth, SPYS i tell you SPYS. I have been jedi for about a week, and took 2 days of work to grind for fun, spent many hours in spin grps watching non-jedi make trip after trip to the village or change entire templateswhile I waited for the next box to fill. The whole agrument that jedi have spin grps is BS , everyone has spin grps, jedis just make them more fun. So is there anyone here acutally saying that Jedi should not be the most powerful profession? Explain that to me please....
TKM/M Brawler/Pike 3440/Swords 0440/Fencer Novice + medic xx3x.
Mods included=
+25 HE clothes.
+18 Unarmed Speed.
+25 RDef / +25 MDef
+25 General Melee Accuracy.
Throw in
Snowcake, Pikatta Pie, Luris Mushroom, Blob Candy, and Crispic; 1250 Stim d's and Ruby.
Very nice.
EVILxWARLOCK wrote:
It is sad but we are for sure back to the pre cu melee stacking game. After some major testing last night against many templates including jedi ( tested agianst defender and powers templates) this template seemed to be just insane.
Here is the template and why it is so good.
Master sword, pike 4441, 4004 doc using ris armor 75% armor break slice.
1. Heal as good or better than jedi with stim and doc heal.
2. You can buff yourself giving you the speed, action regen, heal buff. Even jedi can't do this.
4. You have intimidate, knockdown, war cry, center of being and armor break.
5. Weapons that do better damage then jedi.
6. Armor that can take the damage and also resist armor break.
7. Cooldown timers on the high end almost nill except on 1 or 2 and they are not that bad.
There is more but you get my point. There is no way a jedi can do all this stuff without being a cookie cutter template and you still can't do most of it.
You add intim, warcry, center of being together with a good sliced set of ris armor, these guys are better tanks than master defenders. Also add in the heals they can do + the buffs.
Now i am not saying that these guys need a nerf. What i am saying is we need a boost.
You can grind this template out in no time. Just makes no sence to me. Just my 2 cents.
Message Edited by EVILxWARLOCK on 10-12-2005 06:27 AM
Yep and they even get to make their own weapons and armor... stupid melee classses are broken... and that template seems sub par without Imp CoB most jedi should own them.
i say jedi shouldnt be the most powerful anymore. that power came with great risk and jedi knew that going in.
whining till all the risk were taking away means all thatpower should be stripped away as well. instead of whinning that it's to hard or server a punishment why not try to offer up a trade for risk, ask them for different risk that make the game more fun and give you a reason to have the power. permadeath was probly to harsh, but skill loss and xp loss were fairly mild. saber tef took away from the fun of the game but you could have come up with an idea and asked to have it changed instead of just cring to have saber tef removed.
the entire point of my post is stop whining and start tring to be positive, give feedback and the devs might actually start listening to you again. the way these furoms have been for awhile now just makes me think i'm in a room with a bunch of spoiled 5 year olds.
think of new risk that you can live with and ask for those to be implemented then no one will be able to say nerf jedi or they dont deserve the power. just find tradeoffs that will allow you to ask for more without seeming like the spoiled little brats most of the servers believes you to be.
as i have said in a post earlier jedi should have the most power in this game, but to make it an even trade for all in the game they most also come with risk.
as for having to grind out 6 times the xp. look at it as a forced way of learning how to play your char. the devs dont want complete noobs running arround flashing sabers at everyone yet not able to answer the simplest questions. xp is very easy to come by now even for jedi.
rizzacathon wrote:
i just wanna know how common you think ris armor is. it took months to gather all the needed loot componets when i went to get a suit made. after gathering the componets i had to then find a trustworthyAS to give the stuff to hoping he wouldnt charge me 7 million plus per piece.
most people in the game dont have em cause of the diffuculty to gather everything needed to make them and the unavailability of AS.
also you gotta remember the weak jedi that couldnt handle the risk of jedi have gotten you nerfed to a point were you should no longer feel that you deserve to be the best in game. the risk is gone now jedi is just another profession with way to many members. just get over it already.
R.I.S. is very simple to get now, my friend has pieced togetehr and sold so many suits i cant even count. It takes less special items then before and they all can be group harvested easily
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Eisei wrote:
Same melee temps?
On my server I've seen melee temps of different kinds. Mine myself before my main was a jedi, I had a temp of TKM/MFencer/4040 med ((With force sensative of course)). The one I plan my alt to have is TKM/MFencer/((Defense tree)) Swords/((Defense Tree)) Pikeman. When it comes to others I have seen TKM/MSwords/Pikeman/etc, MSwords/MBrawler/etc, MPike/MBrawler/Swords/Etc, as well as a few who took their template after mine and there are still other temps.
Not on my server. The predominant template is the one that was discussed in this thread, or slight variations thereof. I know one person who is an actual pure Pikeman/Swordsman. You see a lot of CL 73's running around, and they've all got Sith Blades, so it doesn't take a rocket scienetist to figure out what they're using. Can't even tell you the last time I've seen a Fencer...that actively participated in PvP anyway.
Take a look at one of the pics in my sig and you will have seen one. Regardless of what others say, I have made fencer work and work very well in both one on one duels and full scale PvP GCW before CU, after CU and in CU TC
And as for ranged. Dunno about you but I see MANY MANY guns a blazing ((Not more then sabers of course))whenever I watch my friends PvP in the GCW so maybe your server just sucks and have nothing but single minded people
Good..there should be a lot of guns. This is Star Wars...not WoW. And I won't dispute you in the least about your statement about the server...lol
The CU centered its focus around the general professions and not alpha class. I dunno why you "Supposedly" thought it centered around Jedi. During TC, sure I saw Jedi but not enough to consider them as the central focus =). I DID see ranged and gunman as far as the eye could see with around 10 melee at most ((While only 3 or 4 of them including myself were the only ones who knew how to make melee work at the time)). I just want to know why you thought the central focus of the CU was Jedi. If that were the case then the TC-CU should have been flooded with Jedi but yet it wasn't really.
Okay, now you're going to stop twisting my words around and listen. You are correct, the CU was about fixing/improving/balancing the standard professions. However, in the original "blueprint" of the CU, Jedi was going to be used as the "benchmark" by which all the other professions would be built. How do I know this? A very reliable source told me that this was the original method they were originally (such as the Alpha testing that never happened)using for the CU. And guess what? It would make perfect sense, as they would set the precedent with Jedi and then retool the other professions around the alpha class. Did they do this? That I cannot say, but I know that this was one of, if not the original method they were going to use for the CU. I know the CU was not about Jedi, but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to implement it without including Jedi. And therein is the explanation of my statement...if that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what will.
Since I dunno about this fact and I do not see any proof of this I'm going to have to decide based only on opinion of what you have brought me on whether or not to believe it. But I will leave that aside for now.
Maybe it was to be the line of power and balance between the supposed alpha and originals but you must understand my reasons for my statement. You yourself has stated that there have been minimal testing in consern to Jedi in the TC CU. So it would be rather hard to think that the alpha was supposed to be the line of power. And even if we are, there are still thoughts about the FRS. I know it is very hard to put trust into such a system but you need to think about this.
What if they decided to make Jedi much more powerful at this stand point. What if Jedi were able to fend off three people at the same time at most. Sure that's all fine and dandy but come the FRS, our power will push far above that bench line you mentioned. The only way to solve this is to probably just make it so that the FRS grants little, to no changes in power and affectiveness. Thus the FRS will be rendered useless.
Thereare far more issues to be looking at rather then the ones given to us. Balance still needs to be within this game no matter what way you look at it. To grant such powermeans we need to be in some serious check. Jedi need to stay out of theeyes of the common. Jedi would have to leave the GCW or be given such a negative to the GCW that little to no Jedi would participate. These reasons are why I believe jedi will NEVER be what it once was. If you don't understand then look around you man. What percentage ofJedi would do nothing but whine, cry, and complain that they cannot show off their glow stick and how "Unfair" the system is. Thus, we are right back to this point.
And you're right about TC...there was a lot of ranged. Then people figured out that melee was still overpowered to the point on unbalance and suddenly we're back to barbarian swords.
It didn't happen so quickly though. It took quite a few weeks to a month or so, before the melee people started to return and it took the tough ones/smart ones to tell these people that melee is NOT "Dead". This could be the same thing that can happen to any type of ranged fighter as I have seen on my server. One of my bestfriends is one of the best PvPers on our server and the type of weapons he uses are in fact ranged so there is still very strong life within ranged that people do not get or understand yet. Maybe the same can be for Jedi as well lol
Message Edited by Eisei on 10-13-2005 10:55 AM