Jedi Archive
Thread: Compare Apples to Apples when complaining please.
WookieOgre wrote:
Don_T_Shoot wrote:
I'm so glad the original poster wasted everyone's time with his inciteful analysis.
Yes, let's compare crafted weapons that can be made by the factory full or had from an easy quest with absolutely best case sceneario, four absolutely perfect pearls, that are not currently available and may never be again, and a 12pt MLS crafted saber. Yes, THAT is a fair comparison.
The problem is NOT that sabers are bad inheritly, in fact, as discussed to death in far far better thread, they have a distinct advantage in certain situations. The problem is any monkey with RoTW can get a better gun with one easy quest than the vast majority of jedi, who have to tune a large number of pearls that either have to be farmed from krayts themselves or buy at insane prices, and will never tune to perfect.
I believe the point of the post was to stop attacking how uber the weapons are being made, because frankly they are not better than a saber in a lot of PvP situations.Like he said, slicing & PU's are a different story. I think he just wanted to make the point we shouldn't be whining for nerfs with normal crafted weapons because they are compareable to high damage sabers (whether or not you have one is not his point)
I agree that no one should be asking for regular weapons to be nerfed or changed. They seem reasonable to me.
My concern is the threads that try to make all sabers out to be superior when only some(preCU) are is the problem. It can be intrepreted as a method to get people to stop discussing (and complaining) about the current problem with how lightsabers get their stats. And that it should be a concern for anyone without PreCu perfetly tuned pearls.
I think the issue is, and Tiggs seemed to hint at it, that the current system for lightsabers needs to changed without opening a floodgate of uber sabers. Tricky, if not impossible, to be fair to everyone since they allowed premiums to flow like water at one point and introduced ADK's.
In short, better sabers* should be attainable somehow. And we are not wrong to ask for that.
* by better sabers I mean than can be had now, not better than the good and perfect PreCU sabers.
Can you imagine the outrage there would be from jedi of all publishes if there were no ADK's? There would practically be bloodshed.
Message Edited by Don_T_Shoot on 09-01-2005 01:50 PM
ArranSound wrote:
My rifle with a pup, is 610-1285 damage and this is with only a 20% damage pup. I can get it even higher with 30% pup. It's also 83 sac.
I know you stated that pups should be treated as a seperate issue, I don't necessarily agree with you on that point, as pups last a fairlylong timeand are cheap to replace often,Iconsider themubiquitous with non-saber weapons. It may add to the complexity of the comparison, but pups need to be considered.
I can also take food/drink that boosts my accuracy by approximately 250 too.
Message Edited by ArranSound on 09-01-2005 09:28 AM
yes but foods can be taken by both Jedi and non-Jedi alike which is why they are left out of the equation all together.
And don't get me wrong I am not stating that we should simply ignore powerups all together. All I'm saying is that they should be a seperate issue. I believe that powerups should be addressed, and I believe that Jedi should have access to them just like any other profession. But my point is that this should be a seperate argument from weapons stats. I also think that the ability to use PuP's would add a lot of flexibility to Jedi which would help tremendously, we could then increase any area that we feel is lacking on our sabers, whether it be speed, damage or sac.
jason67 wrote:... I mean what would you do in their place.
Um, hire Bioware to make a whole new game? /grin
I can't even try to read this huge post...there was one just like it yesterday anyways...
But you compare defense of Jedi with Aura on, then you should compare defense of Rifleman with Imp Duelist stance on and AB75% reduction armor
You are a noob...I didn't even read your post...Just my initial impression of peeps who take things out of context then try to act all scientific...go into politics, you should do well.
Ok so I read a little more...
You forgot to add SAC costs, we all know 65 vs. 95 SAC is of littleimportance(OOOPS...lol...noob)
(Mind cost on heals, we don't even need to go there)
you mentioned PuP's but said it basically doesn't matter (different topic)...OOOPs...lol...noob
And, of couse, what I already posted...
Noob
Message Edited by KeeferKman on 09-01-2005 04:11 PM
KeeferKman wrote:
I can't even try to read this huge post...there was one just like it yesterday anyways...
But you compare defense of Jedi with Aura on, then you should compare defense of Rifleman with Imp Duelist stance on and AB75% reduction armor
You are a noob...I didn't even read your post...Just my initial impression of peeps who take things out of context then try to act all scientific...go into politics, you should do well.
Well if you did read the post the point was current Jedi are making uneducated comments about the damage capabilities of a good saber.
If you read it, it does make sense although as you stated there are somethings that needed to be tweaked (like Imp Duelist Stance).
Trust me, HostageH is no noob hehe. With a 719 damage saber and extremely nice weapons on the alt, I'd say that is enough qualifcation. If you read responses further down the initial post you'd see the intention is educate that a saber is with good stats is not as gimped as a lot of people have been posting. If you read the post from Tiggs people are complaining that even with a perfect saber they can't compare to a 1300 damage Rifle. This post was made to show that is not actually true.
Phenix1050 wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
The tendency of people to want to extend their misery to other humans is astounding. Why would anyone who has dealt with the terribly broken professions like Ranger and Smuggler want to wish that on others? Its frankly mean spirited.
Please point out a single place where I suggested that rangers should wait because something needs to be done with Jedi? The last time I checked this was the Jedi forum where we discuss the Jedi profession and how it affects us. If I was in the ranger forum talking about it you would have a point. Since I'm not you don't.
By all means fix Ranger and Smuggler and other broken professions. While you are at it fix Merchant which has been waiting a lot longer than 6 months on a revamp to a very broken profession. But..stop trolling threads that were up to now a honest and civil discussion of issues and perceptions with off topic points.
I think the point is that any work done affects all other work done. There are only 24 hours in a day. There are not 24 Jedi hours, 24 Ranger hours, etc. So when asking for a change to happen to Jedi, you have to realize that work done on that issue will affect other work done. If a developer spends 2 meetings discussing whether premium pearls should drop again and then spends 20 hours working with the coders on trying to find a new way to ensure that pearl drops are what you want, that's time not spent on other professions.
Pearls are working as intended. Pearls that are easy to get have less chance of tuning to 100+ damage...but you can collect a lot of them easily. Pearls that are harder to get have a better chance of tuning to that level. Point is that it's RANDOM and a fair crystal can tune to 120, -9Fc, -.19 speed too. So asking for them to change that would require a lot of time to discuss and code. And that affects all other professions. By saying "6 months is too long to wait" you imply that this needs to be done NOW, in other words superceding all other changes. That may not be what you meant, but it certainly a valid way to read what you wrote.
Do I actualy think that's what you meant? No. I spent time reading your posts on various forums, and I don't believe that's the type of person you are. But at the same time, there are a lot of people who do feel this should supercede all changes, and it the right of every person who's a Ranger at heart but has a Jedi toon to come in here and post a perspective that doesn't put Jedi first. Many Rangers have a Jedi toon. Many Jedi have a Ranger toon. It's all a matter of which community you associate with more.and like you have a right to post that 6 months is too long, others have a right to say "yeah, but so is 26 months for Ranger...I think this pearl issue can wait."
I didn't say 6 months was too long to wait. I said 6 months was a very long time in MMO terms. Most people don't play an MMO for more than a year.
I have never stated that I think pearls should be immediately solved. I do think that the real issue is the imbalance that exists between pre-CU sabers and post-CU sabers. And while the haves can think that is fine ultimately its not a good idea to have a profession unbalanced between veterans and newer players.
This was really just a discussion about why there is the perception and frustration about this issue. I don't expect it to be resolved before november and if that is true I'll live with it. But frankly the longer it goes on the more likely (when the FRS comes) that the end result will be a nerf and not fixing the real issue.
oh yeah, throw in a couple major nerfs for force powers like added FC to all attacks/specials, some major cooldowns, warm up timers too
KeeferKman wrote:
I can't even try to read this huge post...there was one just like it yesterday anyways...
But you compare defense of Jedi with Aura on, then you should compare defense of Rifleman with Imp Duelist stance on and AB75% reduction armor
You are a noob...I didn't even read your post...Just my initial impression of peeps who take things out of context then try to act all scientific...go into politics, you should do well.
you do realise that stacking defences vs a saber does very little to mitigate damage
because of the tight min/max range on sabers even if you run COB and IMp duelist together +750 defence the most you reduce a jedi's damage by is 100 - defence levels mean very little when a jedi hits you that is the streangth of a saber - eg BH that stops runnig to apply impr duelist really doesnt know his profession
KeeferKman wrote:
Ok so I read a little more...
You forgot to add SAC costs, we all know 65 vs. 95 SAC is of littleimportance(OOOPS...lol...noob)
(Mind cost on heals, we don't even need to go there)
you mentioned PuP's but said it basically doesn't matter (different topic)...OOOPs...lol...noob
And, of couse, what I already posted...
Noob
Message Edited by KeeferKman on 09-01-2005 04:11 PM
Once you actually spend the time to read the full post and make an intelligent post I will respond to your points, until that time they are completely meaningless because you have totally misconstrued my original post and the information it provides.
Message Edited by jason67 on 09-01-2005 02:31 PM
silentjunior wrote:
basically, this game sucks at balancing
oh yeah, throw in a couple major nerfs for force powers like added FC to all attacks/specials, some major cooldowns, warm up timers too
many people agree with this point of view but until a constructive post about it is created with some factual data to back it up then it will go on being ignored. If you are really interested in getting this improved take the time to run some DPS/SAC calculations using powers vs a lightsaber and vs a standard weapon, but make sure it's accurate data using equivilent comparisons where possible.