Jedi Archive
Thread: Add a Snare Effect to Force Lightning 2 Attacks
CMsivart wrote:
As the previous post was deleted just as I was responding, I will again respond with the same words of "wisdom". What you are calling for is, in my opinion, another attempt at getting all jedi to posses all the same skills and powers. If this happens, then the game will certainly become the ultimate boredom...no variety. If a jedi desires a root/snare, they should invest their skill points in those trees. MLS does not have a root/snare attack, yet following your logic they should. This would seriously lower the value of the enhancer's ability to root/snare. We have witnessed calls for added innate armor for jedi not wanting to spend the skill points in defender. What the SOE Devs have done with the CU is a great service, in my opinion - providing for and ensuring that no jedi template would be the all-powerful template. They have made us choose our path, and this is what brings variety and excitement to the game.
We should focus more on getting the bugs worked out of the existing system rather than wanting all abilities placed in a neat package called jedi.
Sivart
Corbantis
Actually, my intent was to:
a) Give Lightning a real value.
b) Move a classic ability more in line with movie cannon.
That said, I think it makes perfect sense. IMO, Powers users are choosing a Dark path and Enhancer users are choosing a Light path. It makes perfect sense to me to have overlap in some abilities, and only makes it even better that they be tied to different abilities.
Honestly, Lightning is useless right now in combat, and something needs to change to have it have ANY value.
CMsivart wrote:
I understand your thoughts, yet still have a hard time combining effects in other areas. For example, LS has no root or snare, so by logic they should also be included in this change. I played a MP template until very recently, and found that lightening was not totally useless in combat...but it is not meant to be a major damage-dealer. It follows with the "crowd control" design of the template...a powerful ranged attack. Trying to bring things in line with the movie cannon is very unrealistic...the game has never been designed to follow such a cannon. The only way that it would make sense is if light jedi were not allowed to delve into the powers trees...then I would agree. However, there is no restriction on any jedi from playing any of the trees, just a matter of choosing where you want to spend your skill points.
Sivart
Corbantis
I hear ya.
Lightning is definatly NOT "...a powerful ranged attack." Currently, it's pretty worthless for anything but a finishing move for a BH who can't heal and is running (and you don't feel like using saber throw), hehe.
I do agree with you that there should be more a speration of "Light" & "Dark" Powers, with no ability to learn both. This just makes sense in SW.
CMsivart wrote:
Pday wrote:
CMsivart wrote:
As the previous post was deleted just as I was responding, I will again respond with the same words of "wisdom". What you are calling for is, in my opinion, another attempt at getting all jedi to posses all the same skills and powers. If this happens, then the game will certainly become the ultimate boredom...no variety. If a jedi desires a root/snare, they should invest their skill points in those trees. MLS does not have a root/snare attack, yet following your logic they should. This would seriously lower the value of the enhancer's ability to root/snare. We have witnessed calls for added innate armor for jedi not wanting to spend the skill points in defender. What the SOE Devs have done with the CU is a great service, in my opinion - providing for and ensuring that no jedi template would be the all-powerful template. They have made us choose our path, and this is what brings variety and excitement to the game.
We should focus more on getting the bugs worked out of the existing system rather than wanting all abilities placed in a neat package called jedi.
Sivart
Corbantis
as all non jedi templates gain certain things, offence and defence from the same tree's jedi should be the same, there can not be template diversity in the current system, and its hurting jedi because it leads to crying nerf on other jedi templates.
Defence and offence should be gained for all jedi regadless of template, among others its completely insane imo that a m.powers/m.healer has less defence than a m.dancer/m.music/novice.fencer. The devs need to either move more skills into progression boxes or revamp all the current trees to include inate armor, resist vs armor break, and melee/ranged defence.
Your illustration of the MP/MH vs. master dancer/master musician/novice fencer breaks down when putting them up against the same opponent. Strictly by the numbers, their defenses are not the same...but neither are their offenses. And I can tell you that 99.9% of the players would rather have the MP/MH in a fight than the other template. But here again, it comes down to CHOICES. If defense is important to you, then invest your skill points in the defender tree, plain and simple. If rooting is important, then choose enhancer tree. If escape is important, chose cloak and/or FR2/3 trees. It becomes a choice, and that is what makes this game different.
Sivart
Corbantis
if that is the case then you need to do the same for non jedi, only give armor certs in certain tree's, some proffessions give pure offense and so on, doctor gives battle armor certs for instance they will have to be removed, same with armor certs in CM,Bh needs either its defence or offence stripped, get where im going?
Where is the choice in m.bh/m.rifleman/0-0-2-0 medic/0-0-0-3 pistoleer, where the player in question can be healer, nuker, tank, and crowd control in effect this template is equal to m.ls, 4-0-0-0 healer, 4-4-4-0 defender, 3-3-0-0 enhancer which is a 270ish sp jedi template.
If you look at m.ls vs m.swordsman both classified as close range damage dealer,
m.swords -
195 accuracy
100 speed
85 melee def
60 ranged defence
50 2 hand melee defence
Battle armor cert : battle capped stats 6500/6500 primus layered, number of sockets : 36, can be armor break sliced
m.ls
215 accuracy
120 speed
0 melee def
0 ranged defence
25 saber block
20 inate armor from initiate equal to 2000, number of sockets : 0 can not be armor break sliced.
See where the problem is?
Good Crunch. You should think of posting some of these numbers as they currently stand for the community to compare.
Pday wrote:
if that is the case then you need to do the same for non jedi, only give armor certs in certain tree's, some proffessions give pure offense and so on, doctor gives battle armor certs for instance they will have to be removed, same with armor certs in CM,Bh needs either its defence or offence stripped, get where im going?
Where is the choice in m.bh/m.rifleman/0-0-2-0 medic/0-0-0-3 pistoleer, where the player in question can be healer, nuker, tank, and crowd control in effect this template is equal to m.ls, 4-0-0-0 healer, 4-4-4-0 defender, 3-3-0-0 enhancer which is a 270ish sp jedi template.
If you look at m.ls vs m.swordsman both classified as close range damage dealer,
m.swords -
195 accuracy
100 speed
85 melee def
60 ranged defence
50 2 hand melee defence
Battle armor cert : battle capped stats 6500/6500 primus layered, number of sockets : 36, can be armor break sliced
m.ls
215 accuracy
120 speed
0 melee def
0 ranged defence
25 saber block
20 inate armor from initiate equal to 2000, number of sockets : 0 can not be armor break sliced.
See where the problem is?
Pday wrote:
CMsivart wrote:
Pday wrote:
if that is the case then you need to do the same for non jedi, only give armor certs in certain tree's, some proffessions give pure offense and so on, doctor gives battle armor certs for instance they will have to be removed, same with armor certs in CM,Bh needs either its defence or offence stripped, get where im going?
Where is the choice in m.bh/m.rifleman/0-0-2-0 medic/0-0-0-3 pistoleer, where the player in question can be healer, nuker, tank, and crowd control in effect this template is equal to m.ls, 4-0-0-0 healer, 4-4-4-0 defender, 3-3-0-0 enhancer which is a 270ish sp jedi template.
If you look at m.ls vs m.swordsman both classified as close range damage dealer,
m.swords -
195 accuracy
100 speed
85 melee def
60 ranged defence
50 2 hand melee defence
Battle armor cert : battle capped stats 6500/6500 primus layered, number of sockets : 36, can be armor break sliced
m.ls
215 accuracy
120 speed
0 melee def
0 ranged defence
25 saber block
20 inate armor from initiate equal to 2000, number of sockets : 0 can not be armor break sliced.
See where the problem is?
What I see is that you are talkingmostly defense here when comparing a MLS and M/Swords. There is no rule against jedi wearing armor for protection, as a M/Swords will do...of course you won't be able to use the lightsaber or any powers. Again, the key here is choice...and no jedi will only be MLS...they will have other abilities as well. I only ask you which YOU would choose....being a MLS fighting a M/Swords, or the M/Swords fighting a MLS?
Sivart
Corbantis
CMsivart wrote:
Pday wrote:
CMsivart wrote:
Pday wrote:
if that is the case then you need to do the same for non jedi, only give armor certs in certain tree's, some proffessions give pure offense and so on, doctor gives battle armor certs for instance they will have to be removed, same with armor certs in CM,Bh needs either its defence or offence stripped, get where im going?
Where is the choice in m.bh/m.rifleman/0-0-2-0 medic/0-0-0-3 pistoleer, where the player in question can be healer, nuker, tank, and crowd control in effect this template is equal to m.ls, 4-0-0-0 healer, 4-4-4-0 defender, 3-3-0-0 enhancer which is a 270ish sp jedi template.
If you look at m.ls vs m.swordsman both classified as close range damage dealer,
m.swords -
195 accuracy
100 speed
85 melee def
60 ranged defence
50 2 hand melee defence
Battle armor cert : battle capped stats 6500/6500 primus layered, number of sockets : 36, can be armor break sliced
m.ls
215 accuracy
120 speed
0 melee def
0 ranged defence
25 saber block
20 inate armor from initiate equal to 2000, number of sockets : 0 can not be armor break sliced.
See where the problem is?
What I see is that you are talkingmostly defense here when comparing a MLS and M/Swords. There is no rule against jedi wearing armor for protection, as a M/Swords will do...of course you won't be able to use the lightsaber or any powers. Again, the key here is choice...and no jedi will only be MLS...they will have other abilities as well. I only ask you which YOU would choose....being a MLS fighting a M/Swords, or the M/Swords fighting a MLS?
Sivart
Corbantis
i would rather be the m.swords, the 6500 armor break sliced R.I.S and the ability to hit a m.defender for 800 point of damage. Actually there is a rule against jedi wearing armor, ive tried to equip a suit of battle, ive tried with assault, and ive tried with recon but since the CU you can not equip armor unless you have a novice elite proffession. so really there is no choice for me to wear regular armor nice try though.
The problem is that for jedi there is a forced choice, for non jedi there is not.
not to mention it has a fairly large zip bar and has an insanely long animation that roots you.
imo for a master powers jedi force hit is a bajillion times better in pvp.
MX13 wrote:
Actually, my intent was to:
a) Give Lightning a real value.
b) Move a classic ability more in line with movie cannon.
That said, I think it makes perfect sense. IMO, Powers users are choosing a Dark path and Enhancer users are choosing a Light path. It makes perfect sense to me to have overlap in some abilities, and only makes it even better that they be tied to different abilities.
Honestly, Lightning is useless right now in combat, and something needs to change to have it have ANY value.
CMsivart wrote:
MX13 wrote:
Actually, my intent was to:
a) Give Lightning a real value.
b) Move a classic ability more in line with movie cannon.
That said, I think it makes perfect sense. IMO, Powers users are choosing a Dark path and Enhancer users are choosing a Light path. It makes perfect sense to me to have overlap in some abilities, and only makes it even better that they be tied to different abilities.
Honestly, Lightning is useless right now in combat, and something needs to change to have it have ANY value.
I understand your thoughts, yet still have a hard time combining effects in other areas. For example, LS has no root or snare, so by logic they should also be included in this change. I played a MP template until very recently, and found that lightening was not totally useless in combat...but it is not meant to be a major damage-dealer. It follows with the "crowd control" design of the template...a powerful ranged attack. Trying to bring things in line with the movie cannon is very unrealistic...the game has never been designed to follow such a cannon. The only way that it would make sense is if light jedi were not allowed to delve into the powers trees...then I would agree. However, there is no restriction on any jedi from playing any of the trees, just a matter of choosing where you want to spend your skill points.
Sivart
Corbantis
I'm not sure I'd agree with lightning being a powerful ranged attack. Why would I use it over saber throw? Saber throw has no zip bar, no self root, and the same damage, and if you have the advanced version, a knockdown!
I just wish they'd make lightning more usefull, they tried by making it partially bypass armor, but it's still not worth using.
WCjtace wrote:
CMsivart wrote:
MX13 wrote:
Actually, my intent was to:
a) Give Lightning a real value.
b) Move a classic ability more in line with movie cannon.
That said, I think it makes perfect sense. IMO, Powers users are choosing a Dark path and Enhancer users are choosing a Light path. It makes perfect sense to me to have overlap in some abilities, and only makes it even better that they be tied to different abilities.
Honestly, Lightning is useless right now in combat, and something needs to change to have it have ANY value.
I understand your thoughts, yet still have a hard time combining effects in other areas. For example, LS has no root or snare, so by logic they should also be included in this change. I played a MP template until very recently, and found that lightening was not totally useless in combat...but it is not meant to be a major damage-dealer. It follows with the "crowd control" design of the template...a powerful ranged attack. Trying to bring things in line with the movie cannon is very unrealistic...the game has never been designed to follow such a cannon. The only way that it would make sense is if light jedi were not allowed to delve into the powers trees...then I would agree. However, there is no restriction on any jedi from playing any of the trees, just a matter of choosing where you want to spend your skill points.
Sivart
Corbantis
I'm not sure I'd agree with lightning being a powerful ranged attack. Why would I use it over saber throw? Saber throw has no zip bar, no self root, and the same damage, and if you have the advanced version, a knockdown!
I just wish they'd make lightning more usefull, they tried by making it partially bypass armor, but it's still not worth using.
WCjtace wrote:
CMsivart wrote:
I'm not sure I'd agree with lightning being a powerful ranged attack. Why would I use it over saber throw? Saber throw has no zip bar, no self root, and the same damage, and if you have the advanced version, a knockdown!
I just wish they'd make lightning more usefull, they tried by making it partially bypass armor, but it's still not worth using.
You have a point, with the exception that, unless you are MP/MLS you wouldn't have to choose between the two. Consider that MP is supposed to be a ranged template, and most all their attacks hit from 32m. LS only has the one. I do agree that MP as a whole will not deal the same damage as MLS with the same force cost. However, adding abilities from other trees is not the answer, again returning to the fact that there are choices to be made, with por's and con's with each choice. Adding root/snare to lightening unbalances the choise factor, in my opinion.
Sivart
Corbantis