Jedi Archive
Thread: How can be a FRS pvp based balanced when there are so many template power differences? TEST INSIDE
Well respect bro, having that template is brave.
I was talking to a guildie about doing the same temp, as i love mls, but also miss power's alot(was power's based template pre-cu).
I do think it slightly unfair how mpower's is the weakest against other jedi temp's, especially giving the sacrifice's we have to make to have them in our temp's.
Someone who is MLS/MDEF can have the best of both world's, great defence (and AI ) , and great offensive, and we have poor defence, average damage output(at a very high force cost).
Im a Dark jedi, so i like to have a certain amount of power's in my temp, as i think that's how it should be, but my point is m8, and like you say, we suffer for it, for keeping to tradition's
THEsmuggla wrote:
Should i give up my passion for Mpowers to be better pvper and be ranked in the FRS?
I think not. This is why i hope the new FRS will be quest based AND pvp extra (meaning that if you want to get FRS faster you can PvP).
PvP shouldt be mandatory IMHO; i really like to do PvP and think its a lot of fun....but i think also that players must be allowed to achieve same results (FRS ranks) in different ways...so they can choose the one they like the most.
Your point is moot. No two professions should ever be exactly balanced, even subclasses within Jedi that equate to non-Jedi mezzers and tanks. That is not the point. See this thread:
DancingRhodian wrote:
THEsmuggla wrote:
Should i give up my passion for Mpowers to be better pvper and be ranked in the FRS?
I think not. This is why i hope the new FRS will be quest based AND pvp extra (meaning that if you want to get FRS faster you can PvP).
PvP shouldt be mandatory IMHO; i really like to do PvP and think its a lot of fun....but i think also that players must be allowed to achieve same results (FRS ranks) in different ways...so they can choose the one they like the most.
Your point is moot. No two professions should ever be exactly balanced, even subclasses within Jedi that equate to non-Jedi mezzers and tanks. That is not the point. See this thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=1305920
You're caught up in the flawed design of SWG. Multiplayer combat of various professions should be at least 5v5 to be rewarding. Comparing the Queen to the Rook, or the Knight to the Bishop, is looking at things incorrectly. Absent a playing board, they appear unequal, but once the other pieces and the board are provided, voila, you have a game.
SOE still doesn't understand that, and continues to micromanage in a failing path of profession mismanagement, when they should be focused on designing the game board, the GCW and battlefields, instances, and engaging gameplay and reward systems.
Agree
Agree in part. I agree that 2 prof dont have to be slightlyy balanced...but i disagree on that my point is moot when i think that if the FOTM will be MS MDef etc and everyone and their dogs will use that template to advance in FRSppl like me who enjoy roleplay/have passion for powers will of courseget the shaft.
This is something that our guild has talked about quite a bit. What should that basis of the FRS be so that is is fair to all?
- If the FRS is PvE only, then it will favor power gaming over templates & skill. Players with loads of time to dedicate to grinding will be the ranked players, and those without won't. Skill be-damned.
- If the FRS is group PvP based, then it will favor the gank squads over all else. Players with strong guilds will be the ranked players, and those without won't. Skill be-damned.
- If the FRS is based on 1v1 PvP, then it will favor one or 2 templates over all all else. Players withstrong solo combattemplateswill be the ranked players, and those with support templateswon't. Skill be-damned.
Player Dark1 attacks player Light1, locking him into battle and opening a Tef slot to any one player in the Light group. If no player from the Light group counter attacks, Light1 has the chance to evade. If he is successful in evading then a minor victory is given to Dark with a minimal xp gain for Dark1, and a marginaly larger xp loss for Light1.
If any Light playerattacks Dark1, a Tef slot is opened to anyone player in theDark group, allowing one member of the Dark group to join the battle. Once battle is joined, the chance to evade is lost and the only possible results are player death or a draw. Initialy we had only talked about 2v2, but this chain could progress until an 8v8 battle is had. Each time the defending team 1 ups the attackers, the attackers can add another player. This allows the attackers to choose the time & place, but the size of the battle is determined by the defenders.
This would prevent 8 player groups from ganking lone wolves (or worse... the GCW free for all we have that allows for a 50v1), but would still allow for the possibility of a 16 player fight.It would allow support templates to be viable in FRS battle, without focusing on them. So long as defeated players loose more xp than the winners gain, it can't be exploited for fight-clubbing.
Va-Mei wrote:
This is something that our guild has talked about quite a bit. What should that basis of the FRS be so that is is fair to all?
- If the FRS is PvE only, then it will favor power gaming over templates & skill. Players with loads of time to dedicate to grinding will be the ranked players, and those without won't. Skill be-damned.
- If the FRS is group PvP based, then it will favor the gank squads over all else. Players with strong guilds will be the ranked players, and those without won't. Skill be-damned.
- If the FRS is based on 1v1 PvP, then it will favor one or 2 templates over all all else. Players withstrong solo combattemplateswill be the ranked players, and those with support templateswon't. Skill be-damned.
The best idea we were able to come up with was a blend of the old G-Tef and the current BH-Tef that would allow for a 2v2 fight. The idea is that if a Jedi in your group is locked with an FRS tef, one player from your group can join that battle, but only one player. The chain of events would be something like this...
Player Dark1 attacks player Light1, locking him into battle and opening a Tef slot to any one player in the Light group. If no player from the Light group counter attacks, Light1 has the chance to evade. If he is successful in evading then a minor victory is given to Dark with a minimal xp gain for Dark1, and a marginaly larger xp loss for Light1.
If any Light playerattacks Dark1, a Tef slot is opened to anyone player in theDark group, allowing one member of the Dark group to join the battle. Once battle is joined, the chance to evade is lost and the only possible results are player death or a draw. Initialy we had only talked about 2v2, but this chain could progress until an 8v8 battle is had. Each time the defending team 1 ups the attackers, the attackers can add another player. This allows the attackers to choose the time & place, but the size of the battle is determined by the defenders.
This would prevent 8 player groups from ganking lone wolves (or worse... the GCW free for all we have that allows for a 50v1), but would still allow for the possibility of a 16 player fight.It would allow support templates to be viable in FRS battle, without focusing on them. So long as defeated players loose more xp than the winners gain, it can't be exploited for fight-clubbing.
mmh interesting but complicated for ppl that cant play at crowded server times.
jonstraf wrote:
The information as to why you lost is obvious. You don't understand the role of your template. You are a Master Powers template with no defender. Do you honestly think you can tank? No. Powers, in its current state is considered a support role. To be honest, your template isn't meant for dueling a Master defender Master Lightsaber head-on and if you honestly think you should be able to, then there is a problem. Sure you may have Lightsaber, but because of your poor defenses, attacking any melee head-on full-assault is just silly. That's what his template is for. I'm not saying you should disregard your LS. What I'm saying is because of your choice in template, you have to be more strategic than you were being.
Yeah i know my template is support template.
But it is also a template that gives me fun. I would like a compromise between my fun and my effectiveness in solo pvp.
QFE
DancingRhodian wrote:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=1305920
You're caught up in the flawed design of SWG. Multiplayer combat of various professions should be at least 5v5 to be rewarding. Comparing the Queen to the Rook, or the Knight to the Bishop, is looking at things incorrectly. Absent a playing board, they appear unequal, but once the other pieces and the board are provided, voila, you have a game.
SOE still doesn't understand that, and continues to micromanage in a failing path of profession mismanagement, when they should be focused on designing the game board, the GCW and battlefields, instances, and engaging gameplay and reward systems.
THEsmuggla wrote:
jonstraf wrote:
The information as to why you lost is obvious. You don't understand the role of your template. You are a Master Powers template with no defender. Do you honestly think you can tank? No. Powers, in its current state is considered a support role. To be honest, your template isn't meant for dueling a Master defender Master Lightsaber head-on and if you honestly think you should be able to, then there is a problem. Sure you may have Lightsaber, but because of your poor defenses, attacking any melee head-on full-assault is just silly. That's what his template is for. I'm not saying you should disregard your LS. What I'm saying is because of your choice in template, you have to be more strategic than you were being.
Yeah i know my template is support template.But it is also a template that gives me fun. I would like a compromise between my fun and my effectiveness in solo pvp.
You have the choice to have fun, of course. But If someone goes Master Doctor/Master Ranger and shows up on the battlefield, we all know his job...support. They can't say "Well this is the template I like and I want it to equal MTKA/MSwordsman in defense and damageoutput. You picked support. That's what you are. You aren't supposed to be able to rush in at a master defender and take him melee with no defender! That's a joke. You can kite him at 32 Meters snaring him/choking him etc. Then get a knockdown then rush in and beat him a bit etc. Learn to play your "Support" role because it can't be changed and it shouldn't. Don't go duel a Tank/medium offensive abilities and expect to tank them with 0 defense and just above medium offense.
jonstraf wrote:
The information as to why you lost is obvious. You don't understand the role of your template. You are a Master Powers template with no defender. Do you honestly think you can tank? No. Powers, in its current state is considered a support role. To be honest, your template isn't meant for dueling a Master defender Master Lightsaber head-on and if you honestly think you should be able to, then there is a problem. Sure you may have Lightsaber, but because of your poor defenses, attacking any melee head-on full-assault is just silly. That's what his template is for. I'm not saying you should disregard your LS. What I'm saying is because of your choice in template, you have to be more strategic than you were being.
Yeah i know my template is support template.
for those of u that think mls mp is a support template your wrong its a dmg over def template.
the dmg i can dish out should balance out that fact that i have no def
jonstraf wrote:
The information as to why you lost is obvious. You don't understand the role of your template. You are a Master Powers template with no defender. Do you honestly think you can tank? No. Powers, in its current state is considered a support role. To be honest, your template isn't meant for dueling a Master defender Master Lightsaber head-on and if you honestly think you should be able to, then there is a problem. Sure you may have Lightsaber, but because of your poor defenses, attacking any melee head-on full-assault is just silly. That's what his template is for. I'm not saying you should disregard your LS. What I'm saying is because of your choice in template, you have to be more strategic than you were being.
Well i have a power's temp, i can drop mls/mdefs or mls/mehancers relativity easy, those who beat me , either gank me, use AI , or are speed capped/accuracy capped, so in honesty i think i do well, personally i don't want ppl looking at me and thinking, oh yeay another blow up doll fotm mdef.
I want them to see me using power's and dropping fotm temp's, and thinking WOW, you don't actually have to be the same as the other thousand's of jedi on this server.
You practice enough, you can be effective, im not saying you can beat everyone, because you can't, but if ppl knew my temp on my server, they would be amazed how i beat anyone in pvp, and i don't have tree full's of def
Bahamut_farstar wrote:
jonstraf wrote:
The information as to why you lost is obvious. You don't understand the role of your template. You are a Master Powers template with no defender. Do you honestly think you can tank? No. Powers, in its current state is considered a support role. To be honest, your template isn't meant for dueling a Master defender Master Lightsaber head-on and if you honestly think you should be able to, then there is a problem. Sure you may have Lightsaber, but because of your poor defenses, attacking any melee head-on full-assault is just silly. That's what his template is for. I'm not saying you should disregard your LS. What I'm saying is because of your choice in template, you have to be more strategic than you were being.
Well i have a power's temp, i can drop mls/mdefs or mls/mehancers relativity easy, those who beat me , either gank me, use AI , or are speed capped/accuracy capped, so in honesty i think i do well, personally i don't want ppl looking at me and thinking, oh yeay another blow up doll fotm mdef.
I want them to see me using power's and dropping fotm temp's, and thinking WOW, you don't actually have to be the same as the other thousand's of jedi on this server.
You practice enough, you can be effective, im not saying you can beat everyone, because you can't, but if ppl knew my temp on my server, they would be amazed how i beat anyone in pvp, and i don't have tree full's of def
I'm not saying it's impossible, and you are just proving my point further. My point, is that standing there with no defender expecting to tank a MDEF/MLS no problem, is the problem.