Jedi Archive

Thread: -40 Combat Speed Debuff. Does It Need a Nerf? Hard Numbers Inside.

CabraofGorath
Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:28 am
#14
main problem with this is its a 1 minute test.....fights barly ever last only 1 minutes.....thats why this info is not really accurate



~Death smiles at us all, All we can do is smile back~
Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:43 am
#15




CabraofGorath wrote:

main problem with this is its a 1 minute test.....fights barly ever last only 1 minutes.....thats why this info is not really accurate





One minute is enough to get a general feel of the strength of the debuff. I cannot believe you didn't read that in the discussion part =/


While a 5 minute test would have been more accurate, I have run previous tests with only 40 second testing intervals, and the data comes out the same. Do some testing of your own over a 5 minute interval if you feel the need.


A little bit of common sense will tell you that a one minute test, while slightly crude, is enough. Thank you.



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:46 am
#16




Maelstrom_Raine wrote:




CabraofGorath wrote:

main problem with this is its a 1 minute test.....fights barly ever last only 1 minutes.....thats why this info is not really accurate






Uhh, when I fight a combat medic, the fight generally last over 5 minutes at least... I hate that they can debuff more than we can buff (given that with the cu we were equal on those, at least with doc buffs).

To the point of the post, when fighting CM's I can tell a hell of a difference, but when speaking of fast attacks the difference in 1 second are 2 seconds is extremely noticeable. I'd have to agree with the tester on this. It isn't unbalancing, but it sure does suck to have almost EVERY bh you encounter now be a CM, lol.




Well, technically, you aren't having your attacks slowed from 1 second to 2 seconds. If you did truly have a 1 second attack, it would get changed to a 1.264 second attack!


Not a HUGE difference, but you can notice it while fighting, which is my idea of where a balanced debuff should be in strength





Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
AtonuTragona
Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:53 am
#17

This looks like a huge unbalanced issue to me. 10% decrease in attack speed seems more reasonable.




hamhamthe3rd
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:02 am
#18




AtonuTragona wrote:

This looks like a huge unbalanced issue to me. 10% decrease in attack speed seems more reasonable.








then itll be as useful as doc buffs, althoughuniformity is their brand of balance.
Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:07 am
#19




AtonuTragona wrote:

This looks like a huge unbalanced issue to me. 10% decrease in attack speed seems more reasonable.







Well, take a look at the effects that only a +10 Force Speed 1 buff did. It was a 18\16 -100% = 112.5% - 100% = 12.5% increase from that skill.


Jedi have the ability to get either a +20 or +15 Force Speed 2 buff, if I remember correctly, which would put the speed increase WELL over the 10% debuff that you call for. Hell... Force Speed 1 is more than enough to cancel out those effects.


Now, anyone can see that a buff that is able to be applied outside of battle, during times ofpeace should NEVER be as strong as a debuff that can only be applied in battle. Being able to buff oneself by +30 attack speed via mushroom pie and Force Speed 2 would essentially make this debuff not worth even being included in the game.


For many professions, this -40 combat speed debuff is one of maybe two or threeuseful skills they can use in realtime combat. To see it nerfed down to 10%, when only Force Speed 1 overcomes it by 2.5% ALONE would be a tremendous tragedy for the diversity of this game and the usefulness of many professions in combat.


It would be interesting to see how much a player with Force Speed 2 and Mushroom Pie has their attacks sped up by... probably MUCH, MUCH larger than the 10% you claim is balanced. I don't think Jedi would be too happy if Force Speed 2 was decreased to a +8 combat speed bonus because AtonuTragona said it was inbalanced because it exceeded 10%....



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
slappydude
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:11 am
#20




Ternque01 wrote:


A 26.4% decrease in a target's attack speed in well within balanced parameters for a debuff attack.It is in no danger of disrupting game balance.





that entirely depends on your point of view. Technically anything that gives one person an advantage over another disrupts balance. While your information is interesting I disagree with your conclusion as it is obviously coming from a biased perspective.


Personally, I think CM debuffs should be nerfed to be equal to jedi or jedi should be boosted to match CM. I'm not saying that one should be better than the other.


The only way to bring balance to the game is to actually ensure that one profession is not more powerful than another profession.





Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:12 am
#21




AtonuTragona wrote:

This looks like a huge unbalanced issue to me. 10% decrease in attack speed seems more reasonable.








Like I said just above this post, Force Speed 1 (+10 combat speed increase) grants about a 12.5% increase in attack speed. Because you think that anything over 10% is too strong to maintain game balance, let's lobby to get Force Speed 2 changed to a +8 combat speed increase and Force Speed 1 changed to a +4.


It seems that you only care about balance. I feel it should be applied to your combat speed buffs as well if you REALLY think 10% is balanced.



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
slappydude
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:16 am
#22




Ternque01 wrote:



It seems that you only care about balance. I feel it should be applied to your combat speed buffs as well if you REALLY think 10% is balanced.



I agree that force speed should be better balanced. Doc buffs are superior to force speed and the power between the two should be equalized.

FarSuperior
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:16 am
#23




slappydude wrote:




Ternque01 wrote:



It seems that you only care about balance. I feel it should be applied to your combat speed buffs as well if you REALLY think 10% is balanced.



I agree that force speed should be better balanced. Doc buffs are superior to force speed and the power between the two should be equalized.





they should be i dont get why they arent... why would they knowingly make us weaker than other profs?



Pre CU > Post CU
Yep, i turned to the dark side. =P
Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:19 am
#24




slappydude wrote:




Ternque01 wrote:


A 26.4% decrease in a target's attack speed in well within balanced parameters for a debuff attack.It is in no danger of disrupting game balance.





that entirely depends on your point of view. Technically anything that gives one person an advantage over another disrupts balance. While your information is interesting I disagree with your conclusion as it is obviously coming from a biased perspective.


Personally, I think CM debuffs should be nerfed to be equal to jedi or jedi should be boosted to match CM. I'm not saying that one should be better than the other.


The only way to bring balance to the game is to actually ensure that one profession is not more powerful than another profession.










Jedi armor break probably reduces the effectiveness of non-Jedi armor by around 60%. Even with a top-notch, 75% chance of Armor Break mitigation armor slice, there is only a 75% chance that the effects of armor break will be mitigated to an unknown extent.


By your line of logic, non-Jedi should be able to get an armor buff that not only INCREASES their armor protection while not armor broke, but is also sufficiently strong to make sure that if they are armor broken, that the effects of armor break will be no different than if they were being protected by their unbuffed armor. In other words, your armor break would NEVER bring a non-Jedi's armor rating below the actually stated resists on the armor.


Do you think THAT would be fair??? Open your eyes!!! Armor Break is a INCREDIBLY more deadly debuff than the combat speed debuff. You make a 60% change in the ability of non-Jedi to protect themselves.


While you are busy striving for balance of the combat speed debuff, be sure to call for an armor buff that non-Jedi can apply before a battle that would completely negate your armor break if you apply it, yet healthily increase their armor protection if armor break is NOT applied.


Do it.


It is the same thing....





Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
Ternque01
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:21 am
#25




slappydude wrote:




Ternque01 wrote:



It seems that you only care about balance. I feel it should be applied to your combat speed buffs as well if you REALLY think 10% is balanced.



I agree that force speed should be better balanced. Doc buffs are superior to force speed and the power between the two should be equalized.





In order to conform to the 10% you think that a skill should never exceed, both Doctor and Jedi speed buffs should never exceed +8 combat speed increase. Do you really want that?



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
slappydude
Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:23 am
#26




Ternque01 wrote:

In order to conform to the 10% you think that a skill should never exceed, both Doctor and Jedi speed buffs should never exceed +8 combat speed increase. Do you really want that?




When did I ever say 10%? You are confusing me with someone else.


I don't care what the percentage is. I just want whatever percentage is there to be equal. Is that too much to ask for?


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