Jedi Archive
Thread: Force should regen at the same rate mind regens when sitting.
mauvros wrote:
KRAKEN666 wrote:
i dont ever remember in any jedi movie of the force just running out on a character...why in the world does soe have to impliment a force bar in the first place. it goes against every star wars movie. yes, the force gets greater the more you increase your templates but for the force to be drained away is saying that there is a finite amount of the force allocated to each jedi and then... no moresoup for you!...
Because this is "PRE JEDI NERF" thinking. Back when Jedi was uber you needed to stop them with something or they could grind 24/7 without any downtime.Now that we have been reduced to pretty much the same power as an Elite template you really could completely remove the force bar.
The Mind Bar= The new force bar. Without ones mind you cant heal and your dead. This is a rule for every profession except Jedi because if we also have no force and a full tank of mind we are also dead.
Message Edited by mauvros on 09-12-2005 11:32 AM
Yep. They have nerfed Jedi down so far with the force/mind/action costs (higher than any of the professions I've played with alts) that I was trying to kill the katarn and was doing well-health never falling below about 50%, though this was with the 2k health buff crystal.
I was able to heal just enough to keep around 2k health (thing was occasionally hitting me for more than 1k), but when I had it down to about 305 health I found that I was down to 1% health, zero mind and 30% action.
Action is no longer our true limiter (as it is for the non-jedi player). Mind and force will kill you in ANY sort of prolonged confrontation.
I have managed to kill the katarn solo with a MBH/MCH/medic toon. The only issue is watching the imp. duelist stance as it runs off and keep action at a reasonable level. Good armor costs nothing in the battle (only credits later) and almost all other costs are less for the non-jedi. Though I was always a bit more "on the edge" during this battle due to lack of armor break taking it down more slowly, I was only able to solo it with a non-jedi.
Perhaps I would have been able to solo it with a better saber, but I won't mention pearls in this post...grrr.
mauvros wrote:
Galon_Brightnight wrote:
i don't think it should regen quite that fast while sitting, but i think it should go about half as fast as mind does sitting, while meditating
I could live with that. But why not as fast? Do you have a reason?
Well I think that the reasons are that force is intended to be a long term limiter (it's far more of a short time limit which takes a LONG time to regen! LOL), so it wouldn't go well with SoE to allow jedi to sit for 15 seconds and heal to full force.
Also, without some major reworking of the enhancer xxx4 line, such a thing would render pretty much the entire line useless. Not much use for channel or meditate when you can regen in a few seconds with sitting. Even during a battle, just cloak to regen...
HermanTheGerman wrote:read ep3 book and you will see dooku channelling...
I dont agree that our force bar replenishes too fast, it will make force cost and force manipulation something NOT to worry... I do agree that meditate should be faster or that master enhancer gets a faster regen on meditate... or the more enhancer you get the more regeneration bonus to meditate yo uget.
I think that only a non-jedi would argue that the force bar regenerates too fast. Even those with meditate would have to agree that it's a major time sink.
HermanTheGerman wrote:
read ep3 book and you will see dooku channelling...
I dont agree that our force bar replenishes too fast, it will make force cost and force manipulation something NOT to worry... I do agree that meditate should be faster or that master enhancer gets a faster regen on meditate... or the more enhancer you get the more regeneration bonus to meditate yo uget.
See the thing is right now people can live with it.
Wait until the FRS comes out. I have a feeling its not only going to be Jedi vs Jedi. Im sure it will include Rebel vs Imp including Elite templates. (I will be disapointed if it doesnt personally)
When the FRS returns and your perma overt regen will become a MAJOR problem. Right now who cares if you die right?? Clone, sit for 5 min, go overt again and join back in. When your Perma overt and finish a fight with 1 guy and have to sit for 5-10 minutes until your ready to fight again you will change your opinion.
Do the math...
I have +54 force reg from my skills (single master). That means I reegn 54 points every 10 seconds, or 324ish every minute. With a force pool of 6100, that means 18 minutes to regenerate force (without skills), or 6 minutes while meditating.
When I'm fighting anything and using special attacks, i can easily drain my force pool within 3 or 4 minutes, probably even less if I need to have aura and infuse macros on. Major down time on that.
Force regen should be 3x as fast as it is now when standing, maybe 5x while sitting, and 10x while meditating.
acmtalk wrote:
nah, Thats WHy we have meditate + channel, Just get some enhancer and u should be fine....
Your kidding right?
I have enchancer upto x x x 2. Meditate is not worth it.
Your kidding yourself if you think its going to be ok when the FRS returns, and dont tell me its all about force management. A single fight can eat upto 50% of your force bar.
DrNeek wrote:
Do the math...
I have +54 force reg from my skills (single master). That means I reegn 54 points every 10 seconds, or 324ish every minute. With a force pool of 6100, that means 18 minutes to regenerate force (without skills), or 6 minutes while meditating.
When I'm fighting anything and using special attacks, i can easily drain my force pool within 3 or 4 minutes, probably even less if I need to have aura and infuse macros on. Major down time on that.
Force regen should be 3x as fast as it is now when standing, maybe 5x while sitting, and 10x while meditating.
Yup... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mauvros wrote:
Yeah, Bring it on.. Instead of Crying on the boards, I actually learned how to play my jedi, and I can do prety well... Its not about beeing Uber or not, You as jedi are Not suppost to spawn atacks all the time, Thats WHy they ahve a force bar on.. Learn how to play and stop crying you Noob.
You know whats really funnny? I do know how to play my Jedi and I know you ingame as im on your server and beat you many times in duels.
I guess I know how to play better than you Noob.You should spend even less time on the boards.
ohh sure, And your name is?? I love people who hide their in-game name on the boards
Anyway I am off to work, See you laer in game MR. "I am too afraid to put my in-game name on the boards", So you can "Beat me again in a duel"...
Channel should remain as is where you may channel in combat to the detriment of your health bar.
If these suggested changes are made then you would not need to increase the regen rate.
BTW, FIX the regen tapes so they actually work....that would help too.
But I also agree. If the force bar is meant to be a "long term limit" as the Devs stated, it should LAST long term. I can't kill a single CL 82 elite mob and have more than about 60% force remaining unless I WANT to take all day nipping it to death with the basic saber hit OR use a pike.
I just finished the "Rescue Rroot" quest. I had to kill three Blackscale CL 80 elite mobs. I managed it, with a lot of aura and infusion plus judicious use of armor break, but I ended up with 9% force remaining. Mind you, this is with using channel (something that I can ONLY do because the AI is dumb enough to not know to go for the kill with my reduced health, action and mind). As a MBH, I could leisurely take each one in turn, without having to manage action so carefully ("elite" templates all have access to low SAC/high damage weapons now).
Mace didn't run out either he was just being used.
KyiasLightsun wrote:
Personally I think Force regen should take a while to regen....force doesn't come off trees you know.
Is it a little slow now? yes...but it shouldn't be the same as aanother HAM bar. Part of being a Jedi is managing that force bar the best way you can.
Having force troubles, pickup channel...given force meditate should work a bit better, but for better force regen get skills to reflect it.
You're right of course, Force comes from everything that surrounds you, not just trees. so in a sense, there's more force than there are trees... But then I guess that makes your argument a moot point.
Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-12-2005 01:10 PM
mauvros wrote:I can understand it no doing so in the old days whenForce=Jedi=PowerNow we are no more powerful than an Elite template who has to sit for 10 seconds to be back to full for every HAM.Also due to group hunting without VIS force is also NEVER a problem when grinding. This alone was the reason for the force bar and its regen rates. Now that we can group for MUCH better XP than we can solo whats the point?Force still serves a purpose and I can understand that, but the regen no longer serves a purpose.When not in combat and sitting our force bar should regen extremely fast.I understand Meditate will become useless and so if they dont want to do the above make Meditate regen as fast as an Elite template mind bar does when sitting.Thoughts?
ok and force meditate will need to become a buff type state. but why all other enhancments are passive so what could be done hmmmm
hows about we make the regen FASTER for forcemeditate and keep it simple for the rest of the non enhancer types