Jedi Archive
Thread: Jacella's Views
Quiet420 wrote:
lookin forward to giving it a read
Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:05 AM
The hologrind idea was fine. The application of it was horrible.... it was introduced into a unfinished gaming system. The idea that you have master random professions was a good idea, if they made it random for every character. They should have gotten rid of the holocron clues, made the master prof number random for each PC, along with certain independant triggers. For example, player A must master 6 certain secret profs, as well as get a number of random POIs, as well as some quests from the village. Now player B must master 10 secret profs, kill a secret number of a certain mob, obtain some badges from the vette/gen lab/dwb/warren, as well as quests from the village.... Everything being completely random. This would have certainly fixed the infestations we have on every server.
MSnil wrote:
I do not believe in questbased missions though. I believe in components that must intereact withother players, becouse quests and codehave always a way to be exploited.
can you eleberate on this cause i can't think of one quest thats been exploited. Sorry just havnt heard of this.
I'll disagree with you here about the hologrind. My friends and I thought it was possibly the biggest letdown, most ill-thought design in the game. Then comes the village, well yay, hologrind with a different interface.
The whole Jedi system should have been as simple as missions (though they can't seem to get them to work right either, so we might not have any Jedi yet 
) that everyone would get randomly assigned to them based on character name, creation date/time, starting class, and starting location. I would have had 250 missions that were more than a little fuzzy for each starting prof, and could intermix back and forth ( to reduce walkthrough writability). It would have been long, hard to find the next NPC, and in the end using the faint connection to theforce you would have built a Jedi Holocron. My guess is that doing the whole thing, a powergamer might have been able to do it in six months.
Now for the 20x power and all that. Yeah we would keep'em, but where's lord vader? Haven't seen him fighting too many Jedi from day 1! I would never have had players hunting players, generates too much animosity, nor would I have had perma-death, but a blue glowie system before cloning. I wouldn't have even put in XP loss, just the blue glowie system. It's a penalty for being careless, you can't play that character, and it's a justification for it's power. The more power, the more blue glowie time.Sabers would always have been lightsaber damage and FRS would have been PvP and PwP oriented depending on faction and personal choices.
This whole lightsaber crystal tuning crap would never have been in there. The Jedi should seek out his crystals, and depending on dark or light - force grow in a furnace (dark) and enhance natural properties in a crystal matrix (light) with tunes based on FP and Lightsaber skills.
I could go on, but I digress, I've tallied too much text here already.
Edit: for me a powergamer plays 6-10hrs a day.
Message Edited by EvilAztec on 09-23-2005 06:56 PM
wow...good stuff, although it is rough....I've captured it and have dragged it back to my lab for analysis....I'ma see what I can do about filling it out a little, then get it back to you and see what we can do about getting some real exposure....regardless of what good it'll do...these are ideas that are worth a hard look.
MsNiL wrote:
Quiet420 wrote: lookin forward to giving it a read
clicky
It's pretty rough, but it outlines some basic ideas to what I had in mind
Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:05 AM
Message Edited by Quiet420 on 09-23-2005 10:20 PM
DocSavag wrote:
The problem with "mysterious" path quests is that you can't prove they work. No one likes to blindly do something for months and never have any indication that they are getting any closer to their goal. Basing being a Jedi on the amount of XP you can generate is a bad idea. It was a bad idea when it was profession grinding and its a bad idea now that it is mindless xp grinding in the same profession.
The point, for me, about hologrinding was simple...have the players that want jedi get a good feel for all aspects of the game prior to jumping into jedi. You rarely hear the rediculous "how to I craft something" questions from Pre-9 jedi. They all did at least 1 crafting prof.
DocSavag wrote:
Jacella wrote:
no comments....lol
Tough to take you seriously when you start out defending one of the worst game design ideas in history. (Hologrinding) A system that wrecked the SWG economy and turned scores of players in to afk grinding zombies long before the Ryatt trails were even a gleam in a producer's eye.
I agree that the Village could be better and that I wish they could find a better method than just grinding XP for your advancement in the village but the hologrind wasn't anything to look back on with fondness for the game as a whole. It wasn't any more mysterious than the village is after the first few unlocks. It was just a matter of how many pointless professions would you master and immediately drop.
Message Edited by steveybabes on 09-24-2005 09:42 PM
DocSavag wrote:
It wasn't any more mysterious than the village is after the first few unlocks. It was just a matter of how many pointless professions would you master and immediately drop.
The system as originally designed was perfect, the only problem wasthey copped out and added clues (holocrons). It would have been a year before anyone unlocked and they'd have had no clue what did it, especially if the devs had been smart enough to insert a random time delay between training the master box of the unlocking profession and getting the unlock message. (Ie, wait a certain time on the order of days, then unlock upon the next action. Could be buying something from the bazaar, could be killing a piket, whatever.) The random nature of the professions would assure that our unlockers werewell-rounded, experienced players who had tried many aspects of the game of their own volition: combat, crafting, entertainment. Which is exactly the kind of player that should have unlocked, not the hordes of dueling, glowbat wavers with a sense of entitlement the game is currently infested with. A little work to get what you want isn't a bad thing, even in a game.
Morwen wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
It wasn't any more mysterious than the village is after the first few unlocks. It was just a matter of how many pointless professions would you master and immediately drop.
The system as originally designed was perfect, the only problem wasthey copped out and added clues (holocrons). It would have been a year before anyone unlocked and they'd have had no clue what did it, especially if the devs had been smart enough to insert a random time delay between training the master box of the unlocking profession and getting the unlock message. (Ie, wait a certain time on the order of days, then unlock upon the next action. Could be buying something from the bazaar, could be killing a piket, whatever.) The random nature of the professions would assure that our unlockers werewell-rounded, experienced players who had tried many aspects of the game of their own volition: combat, crafting, entertainment. Which is exactly the kind of player that should have unlocked, not the hordes of dueling, glowbat wavers with a sense of entitlement the game is currently infested with. A little work to get what you want isn't a bad thing, even in a game.
The Hologrind on paper looks like a good idea. You have a palyer try out different professions, be well rounded and learn about the game. However execution of the system was poor. Every one was sitting in their house clicking through resources grinding out there next profession. A large enough stack of any material no matter how bad the quality could make you allot of money. Trying to get a group togehter was sometimes impossible. See a guy one day and hes a swordsman/tkm and three days later hes working on chef, three days alfter that a Weaponsmith. There was no mystery to it at all when I started in November of 03 I knew exactly how to become a Jedi. Its funny how peopel complain about the Village taking the mystery away, The mystery was long gone well before pub 10. Granted what you suggested would have slown unlocking down but I'm willing to bet they wanted people to unlock because it sold games.
The Village IMO is a better system than the hologrind.The Jedi must slow down type as for the hologrind back but if anythign the Village Guarantess it will take longer.And technicaly it takes more xp to unlock this way than it did to master 31 profs. The quest sytem and keeping your character with the template you want sounds great. The story line behind the village isnt even that bad. However once again flawed execution really only added a littel story to the grind to Jedi. I remember when i first heard about the village. 6 3 week phases. I was thinking I get three weeks to do a phase those must be some good quests. BZZT wrong couple hours of really badmissions and then wait 20 days for the next cycle. And why 4 phases whe you need 6 unlocks. Would it have been so hard to establish this village where when you show up the first time thats your first phase. And why couldnt the missions be more like the stuff they introduced w ROTW.
The whole system has been wrong from the get go. never hard or challenging just a grind. Kill x amount of these things...Make this many of these things...