Jedi Archive
Thread: No more rebel vs imperial jedi.... light vs dark faction
pervel
Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:18 pm
#14
tdf13 wrote:
pervel wrote:
I don't support this idea. I am not grinding my a$$ off just to join a mini-game within the game. Basically I see this idea as another way of saying "remove Jedi from the game".
If something like this is implemented, it should come with a complete removal of the visibility system and player bounty system and also a reduction in the xp required to get Jedi Knight. But I still wouldn't support it.
Jedi were never supposed to be a big part of the game, at least in terms of the GCW.
Being a Jedi is meant to be challenging, and something that very few people would have the patience or drive to achieve, which is why the visibility/player bounty system was implemented in the first place.
The original poster made some very good suggestions, though they were all basically a restatement of Gizmo's "vision". If Jedi were brought in line with other professions in terms of damage, versatility, and time required to master, we would have a situation where the entire population of every server would all be Jedi masters in one day, not to mention the fact that if Jedi were made this common, the fundamental appeal and mysticism inherent in the class would be completely ruined.
If Jedi are allowed to participate in the GCW without any downside, as is the current system, the above would have to happen. There are simply no two ways about it. If Jedi are more powerful than a regular profession, and there are no inhibiting factors in playing a Jedi with a finished template, then what is to stop every person from becoming a Jedi?
Even as they currently are, Jedi are ruining PvP (and yes, I am a Jedi). As it stands now, there are more Jedi in any given PvP group than any other class. Does that not seem wrong?
On the other hand, if a Jedi can easily dispatch three or four elite professions with ease (as was the original intention), there is simply NO WAY that Jedi can be allowed to participate in the GCW unrestrained. Personally, I see no reason Jedi should not be allowed to participate in the GCW, and with that having been said, I am also concerned enough about the overall well-being of SWG as an MMORPG to understand that if there is going to be a class such as Jedi, and in order for the Jedi class to remain fun to play, there MUST be restraints put into effect.
You don't want to take part in this mini-game? Then do not choose to be a Jedi.
Message Edited by tdf13 on 03-06-2005 05:25 PM
Those are tired, old arguments. "If you don't like <insert whatever>, then quit the game." I choose to become a Jedi because of what they are today. The time and effort it takes to become a Jedi is fine right now. I never said otherwise.
Whether good or bad, the devs clearly intend Jedi to take part in the normal game and in the GCW. That is why Knights are perma-overt. That is why Knights originally was given FRS xp for killing any non-Jedi.
I see no reason for having Jedi in the game if they are not supposed to take part in the normal game. And it will never make sense in an MMORPG to make an entire class be available for only a handful of people.
It makes sense to discuss balance between Jedi and non-Jedi. Overall I believe the balance is good right now. Some minor adjustments are needed. But don't think for one minute that you can ever satisfy the Jedi-haters in the game. They are not satisfied before Jedi are no longer part of the game. And this is basically what will happen if you make a mini-game within the game for Jedi only. I also don't see the need to satisfy these people since they are a small, but vocal minority.
Memnoch127
Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:54 pm
#15
I couldnt Agree more please get jedi out of the GCW and quickly.
The reasons why?
There are gangs of jedi Knighst roaming around on servers just destroying other people and i dont mean it goes back and forth the knights lose a few people and they barely survive from an awsome long fight and everyone says WOW that was awsome. Nope more like just a Huge beat down on normal proffessions that made the mistake of going overt.
If you like the way knights are now ask yourself do you really enjoy just completly clobbering other people (other than Defense stackers but thats going away soon) and haveing people complaining and whineing non stop 24/7 all over these boards till the point you cant even read them anymore or ask 1 question?
Either take Jedi out of the GCW or the Devs are gonna Nerf Jedi to Creature handler level or carbineers, we all saw what happened when all that was going on and do you REALLY want that?
Morath360
Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:08 am
#16
It sounds like a lot of people here dont grind jedi, dont know how weak they actually are. I agree with the guy that said that he didnt grind his butt off to be part of some mini game. I want full access with my Jedi and dont want people who for whatever reason want to limit my involvement. It is too long and too hard to just limit it like that. Besides there are not that many fully templated Knights running around. Many confuse padi robes with Knights. Its a huge difference and huge time differencial.
Message Edited by Morath360 on 03-06-2005 11:10 PM
Memnoch127
Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:30 am
#17
Morath360 wrote:
It sounds like a lot of people here dont grind jedi, dont know how weak they actually are. I agree with the guy that said that he didnt grind his butt off to be part of some mini game. I want full access with my Jedi and dont want people who for whatever reason want to limit my involvement. It is too long and too hard to just limit it like that. Besides there are not that many fully templated Knights running around. Many confuse padi robes with Knights. Its a huge difference and huge time differencial.
Message Edited by Morath360 on 03-06-2005 11:10 PM
i do have a jedi im a pre patch 9 unlocker and your right even at high levels melee stackers are better however, Melee stacking is going away soon. TKA is gonna be toned down.
The problem isnt 1 vs 1 its The packs of Jedi roaming around in 10 to 20 knights youd need an army of 20 or more stackers to combat that currently.
Now some servers have very large packs of Knights on it and some servers only have a few i guess it also depends on how much you PvP, now my jedi is on the ketemoor server and currently it isnt so bad, the jedi packs are normally no larger then 4 or 5 in a pack and that isnt to terrible you just need 12 to 15 people to take them down.
However i have been on some other servers and have heard many people complain (although im sure some of it exagerated) that there are 10 or more jedi Knights going around slaughtering Overts.
YEs they could still do this on there normal proffessions but atleast then if all you have is 5 vs 10 you atleast stand a chance there, Jedi in a group in large numbers is very hard to cope with unless everyone has Lightsaber PSG with a decay kit equiped.
you may not think its bad now but have ytou seen the amount of people wanting to go knight? it will get that way soon enough if measures arent put into place now
Memnoch127
Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:34 am
#18
oops forgot something, when it gets to the point on your server where large packs of people are all knights goin after everybody it will discourage other newer players from going overt and the whole entire point of the CU is to balance things and if they dont do something about jedi in large numbers now SWG will lose even more accounts.
there is a ton of accounts on the line (even more accounts than people currently with jedi) of people who have left for WoW and Eq2 who are waiting for this CU and if it flops (like comin back to see nothing but jedi knight dominating everybody and eveyrthing) they wont ever come back and many more might just follow them.
Yes i know that you can say good we dont need them but remember new people are what keep this game going as your current friends move on, please think of the long term effects and also with the amount of jedi cureently flooding in you will have PLENTY of other knights to fight in the FRS.
Davrow
Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:00 pm
#19
I agree with this idea. It is silly that just because I choose to be rebel, I have to be a light side jedi and only get benifits through the FRS for healer and enhancer. I want to take the powers tree, therefore because I am a rebel, I cannot gain the FRS bonuses for the powers tree. We should be able to choose light or dark no matter what faction a jedi is.
Memnoch127
Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:48 pm
#20
CrazyGreen wrote:
What the hell will the jedi do if they are taken out of the gcw??? Most servers do not hav e enough jedi to have a jedi verse jedi war. Removing them from the gcw end there usefulness. There would be absolutly nothing at all to do with them. Plus the fact that if it is just jedi fighting it will come down to the simple question of which side has more jedi every fight. The side with more jedi will never lose and then because they always lose the other side will no longer fight. Removing them from the gcw will all but kill the pvp aspect of jedi. If you have a jedi for pve then you are stupid becuase pve is alot easier with reg characters. So like I said what would be the use of haveng a jedi if this was done?
JEdi is rapidly increasing in Numbers on all servers more and more people are unlocking.
Right now it already is which side has more jedi wins in normal PvP and that side 99 out of 100 times wins so this really wont matter.
Removeing them from the GCW will NOT kill PvP for jedi it will just make them interact between themselves more and Bounty Hunters and will help Save the current PvP that is left.
If Jedi continue to remain in PvP with normal proffession they will be Nerfed and nerfed HARD!!!! you have to see this coming, think about every single time something has just been so dominating in PvP and look what they did, Creature handler Nerfed, Combat stackers: NErfed, Carbineer KD : NErfed, SMugglers : Nerfed down into the ground they picked it up and nerfed it again, Commando Flame Dot :Nerfed, Bleeds : NErfed, Combat medics: Nerfed but still somewhat effective etc etc.
I could give more examples but i think you get the point, notice hardly anybody plays those proffessons anymore other than Combat medics and Stackers which are no where near the wanna be gods they once were.
So its either they make it Jedi vs jedi only and while there at it provide rich content for the jedi and give them quests and things to do, or nerf them down to smuggler/cabrineer level.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:36 pm
#21
Memnoch127 wrote:
Morath360 wrote:
It sounds like a lot of people here dont grind jedi, dont know how weak they actually are. I agree with the guy that said that he didnt grind his butt off to be part of some mini game. I want full access with my Jedi and dont want people who for whatever reason want to limit my involvement. It is too long and too hard to just limit it like that. Besides there are not that many fully templated Knights running around. Many confuse padi robes with Knights. Its a huge difference and huge time differencial.
Message Edited by Morath360 on 03-06-2005 11:10 PM
i do have a jedi im a pre patch 9 unlocker and your right even at high levels melee stackers are better however, Melee stacking is going away soon. TKA is gonna be toned down.
Define "soon"...
A quip, obviously, but it's been coming "soon" for a long time now.
The problem is, there aren't enough Jedi to support a LvD war. And if there were enough Jedi for them to have their own little faction war, even more people would be comparing this to KOTOR.
TrueGunner
Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:00 pm
#22
i agree with having our own factions...
BUT, if this was implimented i would still like to pve with people using my jedi toon...
granted right now when i pve, i cant get healed by any of the people with me, since everyone goes "On Leave" and they cant help me with a heal or something...so for me it cant be worse than what it is...
i have also pvped a lot before i recently got into pve, and jedi fighting vs any other class is just dumb(IMO)...with the exception of the MBH hunting you...
/sign
BUT, if this was implimented i would still like to pve with people using my jedi toon...
granted right now when i pve, i cant get healed by any of the people with me, since everyone goes "On Leave" and they cant help me with a heal or something...so for me it cant be worse than what it is...
i have also pvped a lot before i recently got into pve, and jedi fighting vs any other class is just dumb(IMO)...with the exception of the MBH hunting you...
/sign
TrueGunner
Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:07 pm
#23
hehe you should post a link to this on the GCW forums, ive seen posts like this on there for a long time now
omadnay
Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:38 pm
#24
I ABSOLUTELY agree.
I like the idea of allowing them to take part, but with the consequences of major forces coming after them.
That both represents the danger that should exist during this time-frame and a balancing force that would work it's way into the War's strategy (Is it worth bringing a Jedi when we know they're going to attract major attention...).
And for those that choose to insult anyone for thier opinions...
THHHHBBBLPPPPPPPPTT!!!
And for those saying, "I didn't do all this work for it to be changed on me...", Where were you when the first Jedi Revamp came? They'll make changes like this. If it will make this game better, then we have to be willing to make some changes.
That's okay if you disagree and don't want these changes... but don't say that they can't because it's too late in your grind.
Sorry, that didn't hold true for many many other players when other changes came in.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
I like the idea of allowing them to take part, but with the consequences of major forces coming after them.
That both represents the danger that should exist during this time-frame and a balancing force that would work it's way into the War's strategy (Is it worth bringing a Jedi when we know they're going to attract major attention...).
And for those that choose to insult anyone for thier opinions...
THHHHBBBLPPPPPPPPTT!!! And for those saying, "I didn't do all this work for it to be changed on me...", Where were you when the first Jedi Revamp came? They'll make changes like this. If it will make this game better, then we have to be willing to make some changes.
That's okay if you disagree and don't want these changes... but don't say that they can't because it's too late in your grind.
Sorry, that didn't hold true for many many other players when other changes came in.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
Message Edited by omadnay on 03-07-2005 08:02 PM
Emperador
Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:44 pm
#25
Morath360 wrote:
It sounds like a lot of people here dont grind jedi, dont know how weak they actually are. I agree with the guy that said that he didnt grind his butt off to be part of some mini game. I want full access with my Jedi and dont want people who for whatever reason want to limit my involvement. It is too long and too hard to just limit it like that. Besides there are not that many fully templated Knights running around. Many confuse padi robes with Knights. Its a huge difference and huge time differencial.
Message Edited by Morath360 on 03-06-2005 11:10 PM
You need to realize that grinding the long road to a complete jedi template is not a license or a right for you to be all dominating. I am a jedi and a full template, mls mpowers, the glass cannon as they call it and even I dont feel I should be able to ruin the total experience of the game.
Yes jedi should be powerful and it would easily take 4 to 5 toons to take me down even as an unranked dark knight. the problem here is the packs of jedi now roaming servers. I have seen a few say there are no such things on their servers. I have to laugh at this as either you are blind or play on off hours of the day. If absolutely blows me away how many knights there are on my server and how many are in the FRS. So if you have groups of 4 or 5 running around I can tell you for sure, you will have large gank squads killing your toon soon enough.
It really sounds to me as if you are a member of one of those gank squads.
JediMasterLarge
Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:38 pm
#26
ya i agree with the light jedi / dark jedi factions.....but i dont think jedi should have to grind any faction points.....unless they choose to enter the GCW then to become imperial...or rebel....they should have to grind faction ...i think this would actually be better that way it is jedi vs jedi vs bh instead of jedi vs everybody unless they choose to....as i jedi myself id rather fight other jedi than overt regualr players anyways
...:Blitz Bondara:...