Jedi Archive
Thread: Why Dark Jedi should be able to become Sith Lords
It's a title, hey guys i'm a sith lord too.. Anyways, sure if you want to kill sideous to say I 'm the sith lord of the galaxy that's ok or you just want to call yourself it that's ok too.
You are right, people take the yoda quote alittle too serious, sinceYoda was talking to the sith lord on a day to day bases. The amazingly wise yoda didn't even believe it when he was toldPap. wasa sithby obi wan. So, I really wouldn't feel smart quoting the all knowing yoda. Although, I do get pleasure from knowing that some people are really that.. silly in saying things like what mr pawnage said.
Devacore wrote:
It's a title, hey guys i'm a sith lord too.. Anyways, sure if you want to kill sideous to say I 'm the sith lord of the galaxy that's ok or you just want to call yourself it that's ok too.
You are right, people take the yoda quote alittle too serious, sinceYoda was talking to the sith lord on a day to day bases. The amazingly wise yoda didn't even believe it when he was toldPap. wasa sithby obi wan. So, I really wouldn't feel smart quoting the all knowing yoda. Although, I do get pleasure from knowing that some people are really that.. silly in saying things like what mr pawnage said.
Good God, there are so many people in this thread that how NO idea of what their talking about. Not all, I'm not saying that, but alot of you. If you want to know what is STAR WARS FACT about the Sith, here you go from starwars.com:
"An ancient order of Force-practitioners devoted to the dark side and determined to destroy the Jedi, the Sith were a menace long thought extinct. The current incarnation of the Sith is the result of a rogue Jedi dissident from the order. Two thousand years ago, this Jedi had come to the understanding that the true power of the Force lay not through contemplation and passivity. Only by tapping its dark side could its true potential be gained. The Jedi Council at the time balked at this new direction. The Dark Jedi was outcast, but he eventually gained followers to his new order. Awakening beliefs from the dark past, the new Sith cult continued to grow. With the promise of new powers attainable by tapping into the hateful energies of the dark side, it was only a matter of time before the order self-destructed. Internecine struggle by power-hungry Sith practioners dwindled their numbers.
One Sith had the cunning to survive. Darth Bane restructured the cult, so that there could only be two -- no more, no less -- a master, and an apprentice. Bane adopted cunning, subterfuge, and stealth as the fundamental tenets of the Sith order. Bane took an apprentice. When that apprentice succeeded him, that new Sith Lord would take an apprentice.
Thus, the Sith quietly continued for centuries, until the time of Darth Sidious and his apprentice, Darth Maul. By that time, the galaxy at large had believed the Sith to be extinct, a fabled threat from the past. Qui-Gon Jinn's report of a Sith attack on Tatooine was met by the Jedi Council with hesitation and skepticism. Surely if the Sith had returned, the Jedi would have detected it, they reasoned.
The dark side, for all its power, is ultimately hard to detect when required. A shadowy master like Darth Sidious was able to keep his presence a secret, even when sharing a world with the Jedi Temple.
With the death of Darth Maul at Naboo, the Jedi Council realized that the Sith menace was true. What they hadn't puzzled was whether Maul was the master, or the apprentice. Years would pass before the Sith menace arose once more, a menace that would eventually come to engulf the entire galaxy."
- http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/
You'll notice that when you go to that link that the tab called "The movies" is highlighted. That is the info from the movies(and their novelizations[mainly the novel of TPM]) which is what canon is according to the Star Wars Insider. For a more broad history of the Sith, which however is NOT canon, here is what is found if you click on the "Expanded Universe" tab:
"Although the modern era of the Sith is attributed to Darth Bane, and the Dark Jedi that preceded him, the cult can find its roots further back in the galaxy's ancient past. Long before the Republic rose, there lived a culture on the planet Korriban. These primitive people were called the Sith, and the Force flowed strongly through their bloodlines. Although they didn't practice the Force as the Jedi would, they were talented in their own brand of magic.
In the early days of the Jedi, a great schism tore the order apart. Jedi who had tapped the forbidden power of the Force's dark side rebelled against their light-sided brothers. After a terrible war, the Dark Jedi were exiled from the Republic. Past the Republic's growing borders, these castaways discovered Korriban and the Sith people.
Powerful with the dark side, the Jedi outcasts set themselves up as gods on Korriban. The primitive Sith worshipped them as their lords, and so the Jedi grew, and built temples and monuments to celebrate their power. Millennia of interbreeding blurred the distinction between Sith native and offworlder, and the term Sith came to encompass not only the indigenous people of Korriban, but also the powerful overlords that ruled them.
Five thousand years ago, during the Sith Empire's golden age, a Republic explorer vessel stumbled upon the secluded worlds of the Sith. One Sith Lord, Naga Sadow, saw this as an opportunity to invade the Republic, and exact vengeance on the Jedi who had banished them. History would record the invasion that followed as the Great Hyperspace War, and it would be the first of many terrible conflicts between Jedi and Sith.
Time and again the Sith and Jedi would clash, with devastated worlds lying in their wake. The last great conflict took place on the scarred plains of Ruusan. The Sith Lord Kaan and his Brotherhood of Darkness did battle with the Jedi Army of Light. From this onslaught, one Sith escaped: Darth Bane. It was he who would resurrect the order with duplicity and secrecy in mind."
- http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/?id=eu
In closing: What Yoda said was true about the MODERN Sith. There are ONLY two in existence at a time, and this rule is enforced by the Sith themselves. The master only takes a new apprentice after the other one is killed(whether accidentlaly or on purpose), and the apprentice only becomes the master by killing him and taking his own apprentice.
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 06-12-2005 11:26 PM
Everitt_Cage wrote:
Good God, there are so many people in this thread that how NO idea of what their talking about. Not all, I'm not saying that, but alot of you. If you want to know what is STAR WARS FACT about the Sith, here you go from starwars.com:
"An ancient order of Force-practitioners devoted to the dark side and determined to destroy the Jedi, the Sith were a menace long thought extinct. The current incarnation of the Sith is the result of a rogue Jedi dissident from the order. Two thousand years ago, this Jedi had come to the understanding that the true power of the Force lay not through contemplation and passivity. Only by tapping its dark side could its true potential be gained. The Jedi Council at the time balked at this new direction. The Dark Jedi was outcast, but he eventually gained followers to his new order. Awakening beliefs from the dark past, the new Sith cult continued to grow. With the promise of new powers attainable by tapping into the hateful energies of the dark side, it was only a matter of time before the order self-destructed. Internecine struggle by power-hungry Sith practioners dwindled their numbers.
One Sith had the cunning to survive. Darth Bane restructured the cult, so that there could only be two -- no more, no less -- a master, and an apprentice. Bane adopted cunning, subterfuge, and stealth as the fundamental tenets of the Sith order. Bane took an apprentice. When that apprentice succeeded him, that new Sith Lord would take an apprentice.
Thus, the Sith quietly continued for centuries, until the time of Darth Sidious and his apprentice, Darth Maul. By that time, the galaxy at large had believed the Sith to be extinct, a fabled threat from the past. Qui-Gon Jinn's report of a Sith attack on Tatooine was met by the Jedi Council with hesitation and skepticism. Surely if the Sith had returned, the Jedi would have detected it, they reasoned.
The dark side, for all its power, is ultimately hard to detect when required. A shadowy master like Darth Sidious was able to keep his presence a secret, even when sharing a world with the Jedi Temple.
With the death of Darth Maul at Naboo, the Jedi Council realized that the Sith menace was true. What they hadn't puzzled was whether Maul was the master, or the apprentice. Years would pass before the Sith menace arose once more, a menace that would eventually come to engulf the entire galaxy."
- http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/
You'll notice that when you go to that link that the tab called "The movies" is highlighted. That is the info from the movies(and their novelizations) which is what canon is according to the Star Wars Insider. For a more broad history of the Sith, which however is NOT canon, here is what is found if you click on the "Expanded Universe" tab:
"Although the modern era of the Sith is attributed to Darth Bane, and the Dark Jedi that preceded him, the cult can find its roots further back in the galaxy's ancient past. Long before the Republic rose, there lived a culture on the planet Korriban. These primitive people were called the Sith, and the Force flowed strongly through their bloodlines. Although they didn't practice the Force as the Jedi would, they were talented in their own brand of magic.
In the early days of the Jedi, a great schism tore the order apart. Jedi who had tapped the forbidden power of the Force's dark side rebelled against their light-sided brothers. After a terrible war, the Dark Jedi were exiled from the Republic. Past the Republic's growing borders, these castaways discovered Korriban and the Sith people.
Powerful with the dark side, the Jedi outcasts set themselves up as gods on Korriban. The primitive Sith worshipped them as their lords, and so the Jedi grew, and built temples and monuments to celebrate their power. Millennia of interbreeding blurred the distinction between Sith native and offworlder, and the term Sith came to encompass not only the indigenous people of Korriban, but also the powerful overlords that ruled them.
Five thousand years ago, during the Sith Empire's golden age, a Republic explorer vessel stumbled upon the secluded worlds of the Sith. One Sith Lord, Naga Sadow, saw this as an opportunity to invade the Republic, and exact vengeance on the Jedi who had banished them. History would record the invasion that followed as the Great Hyperspace War, and it would be the first of many terrible conflicts between Jedi and Sith.
Time and again the Sith and Jedi would clash, with devastated worlds lying in their wake. The last great conflict took place on the scarred plains of Ruusan. The Sith Lord Kaan and his Brotherhood of Darkness did battle with the Jedi Army of Light. From this onslaught, one Sith escaped: Darth Bane. It was he who would resurrect the order with duplicity and secrecy in mind."
- http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/?id=eu
In closing, here are a couple of points: What Yoda said was true about the MODERN Sith. There are ONLY two in existence at a time, and this rule is enforced by the Sith themselves. The master only takes a new apprentice after the other one is killed(whether accidentlaly or on purpose), and the apprentice only becomes the master by killing him and taking his own apprentice.
Ihareo wrote:
You have very good points, and I like that you quoted the databank directly. 2 things though.
1. The Databank changes regularly.
2. Palpy broke all the rules.
1. Not this part of it. Hasnt changed since ep I, which has been quite a few years now.
2. "All the rules"? There is only one rule, and that is that there can never be more than two Sith. He never once broke it, or intended to. He made sure Anakin killed Dooku before taking Anakin as his new apprentice, which means only two. He tried to get Luke to kill Vader before taking Luke as his apprentice, which means only two. Dooku tried to get Obi-Wan to help him kill Sidious(and presumably then be his apprentice), meaning only two, Vader tried to get Luke to help him kill Sidious, which would have then meant only two still. There never would have been more than 2 at a time in any of these situations.
Until then, I think you'll have to limit yourself to being a Jedi that's gone to the darkside...
-Buxley
Buxley wrote:
Tell ya what... If you manage to kill off one of the two remaining Sith Lords, either Vader or Sidious (your pick), I'm sure the Devs will make you a Sith.
Until then, I think you'll have to limit yourself to being a Jedi that's gone to the darkside...
-Buxley
Exactly. Kill off Vader or the Emperor and you can take their place. But good luck 2 you
From within the game:
Additionally, there is no such thing as a "Dark" Jedi in the movie lore. The term is an oxymoron, like meat eating vegeterians. The closest thing to a "Dark" Jedi in the movies was, ever so briefly, Anakin prior to his betrayal. One might argue that even that the moment he sliced of Mace's arm he was, in effect, no longer a Jedi. There is some indication that there once were "Dark" Jedi who were the precursors to the Sith. These beings are far more unlikely then the Sith and have no logical foundation. How does one become a "Dark" Jedi if, by definition, Jedi are practitioners of the light side? I have an image of Yoda congratulating Anakin on his good "dark" deed of destroying the Jedi and conferring upon him, with distinction, the title of "Dark Jedi Master." Neither Palpatine nor Maul would have had the authority to confer this title on anyone since they themselves were never Jedi at all. It is surprising that many players have accepted this concept unquestioningly despite the inherent illogic of it based sheerly on the power of unfounded assumptions.
Message Edited by Saber_X on 06-12-2005 09:06 PM
Saber_X wrote:
While their may only be only two Sith Lords up until Episode III, it is supported within the dialogue and events of the movies that there are more Sith. Here is a list of indications that there are many Sith beyond the two Sith lords Yoda referred to in Episode I spanning the entire series of movies and within the game itself.
Wrong
From the Movies:
1. In the early scripts for what became Star Wars, Darth Vader was one of the Thousand Knights of the Sith, the sworn enemy of the Jedi Bendu (later simply the Jedi with Bendu finding its way into the movies presumably in the form of Obi-Wan's alias on Tatoinne).
Um, but that didnt get made into the movie did it? Lucas obviously CHANGED his mind. Thats pretty pathetic, trying to use things GL considered but decided not to use to prove your point. Well, if you want to open that can of worms, dontb a hypocriteand onlyaccept what suits your argument but ignore the rest. Your going to have to accept EVERYTHING GL ever toyed with the idea of using in the movies but decided not to as star wars fact. And let me tell you, that will change the entire story of the movies completely.
2. Darth Vaders title is Dark Lord of the Sith. For him to be a Dark Lord of the Sith there must be other Sith for him to be lord over. He cannot be Lord of the Sith over Palpatine as Palpatine is Vaders superior.
Incorrect.Dark Lord of the Sith is like sayingMaster Obi-Wan Kenobi of the Jedi Order. Dark Lord, is the title they use, as Obi-Wan Kenobi is his title.Dark Lord, of the Sith. Obi-Wan Kenobi, of the Jedi Order. According to canon(the novel of ep I) the current Sith never number more than two, soobviously what your suggesting isnt true, unless you think you know more than GL, starwars.com, and the novel of ep I, all ofwhich is ridiculous even to suggest.
3. Jango Fett was recruited to serve as a template for the clone army by Lord Tyrannus a decade prior to the events in Star Wars Episode II. At this time, there were already two Sith Lords, Sidious Palpatine and Maul. Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas presumably was also involved in this as someone erased the entry for Kamino from the Jedi library. That Maul and Dooku were concurrently involved with the Sith is supported in Christopher Lee's biography in which the actor attests thatDooku was to have manipulated the events leading to the confrontation between Quigon, Obi-Wan, and Maul.
Ep I took place 10 years before ep II. The Death of Maul, the ordering of the clone army by Sifo-Dyas(with good intentions), the turning of Dooku to the dark side and becomming a Sith, the murdering of Sifo, and the recruitment of Jango all took place both in that order, and in a relatively short time frame.
4. In Episode III, when Palpatine urges Obi-Wan and Anakin to get assistance in confronting Dooku Obi-Wan replies "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords (pl) are our specialty." Since the only Sith lord that Obi-Wan and Anakin had confronted previously was Dooku, with very poor results, this indicates that Obi-Wan and Anakin had between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode III fought against other Sith against whom they were able to develop their "specialty" together. Additionally, the Sith are referred to in the plural after Dooku's death but prior to Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi. And there is a reference to a Lord Voss relevant to the Outer Rim Sieges, someone who may or may not be a Sith.
Obi-Wan was both the only Jedi tokill a Sith in 1000 years, and a good humored fellow, as you'll note the smile on his face as he said that. The rest is only your theorizing, and nothing very logical to someone who understands the movies, and doesnt think they know more than GL, starwars.com, and the novels of the movies, as all of those sources say the Sith are only two at a time, yet you suggest otherwise.
5. Even the most rigid interpretation of Yoda's comment in Episode I, that there are only two Sith, does not bind Palpatine after Episode III. It is an open question whether or not Palpatine chose to remain true to this tradition after Episode III and it is unanswered one way or the other in the movies. In fact, there is some indication that the Sith lords of the movies did share their knowledge with others more openly then many assume. General Grievous, for instance, was trained to use lightsabers, something he boastfully noted to Obi-Wan prior to their duel.
Skill with a lightsaber, and knowledge of the force, are two different things, according to ep II. "It is clear this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with the lightsaber".
From within the game:
1. There are numerous Sith already in the game. These are Sith NPC's associated with the Aurelia quests. They are neither master nor apprentices. They are simply Sith underlings of some kind.
Bah. The leader of the 'sith' that attack the village is a Dark Jedi who is a Sith wannabe. Thats why he names his followers Sith, when in actuality they are not even force users, but hired thugs.
2. All dialogue should be given equal weight. If you must adhere to the belief that there are only two Sith because of Yoda's comment in Episode I, then by the very same logic there can be no Jedi in the game either as Yoda stated in ROTJ that Luke was the LAST OF THE JEDI. Beyond statements, there is no foundation whatsoever for bounty hunters hunting Jedi, yet this is a mechanism that has nothing to do with Star Wars that Sony chose to introduce exclusively for balancing the Jedi population. Bounty Hunters hunting Jedi was a programming choice, not something based on anything that occurred in the movies.
Okay? We all know playable Jedi SHOULDNT exist according to the movies, nobody is arguing that.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a "Dark" Jedi in the movie lore. The term is an oxymoron, like meat eating vegeterians. The closest thing to a "Dark" Jedi in the movies was, ever so briefly, Anakin prior to his betrayal. One might argue that even that the moment he sliced of Mace's arm he was, in effect, no longer a Jedi. There is some indication that there once were "Dark" Jedi who were the precursors to the Sith. These beings are far more unlikely then the Sith and have no logical foundation. How does one become a "Dark" Jedi if, by definition, Jedi are practitioners of the light side? I have an image of Yoda congratulating Anakin on his good "dark" deed of destroying the Jedi and conferring upon him, with distinction, the title of "Dark Jedi Master." Neither Palpatine nor Maul would have had the authority to confer this title on anyone since they themselves were never Jedi at all. It is surprising that many players have accepted this concept unquestioningly despite the inherent illogic of it based sheerly on the power of unfounded assumptions.
According to canon, which includes the movies and their novels according to the star wars insider, ancient dark jedi(jedi who used the dark side) founded now sith cult that exists, so if dark jedi existed at that time to break with the order and go on to eventualy create the sith religion, then they can likewise exist currently.
Message Edited by Saber_X on 06-12-2005 09:06 PM
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 06-13-2005 12:48 AM
1. In the early scripts for what became Star Wars, Darth Vader was one of the Thousand Knights of the Sith, the sworn enemy of the Jedi Bendu (later simply the Jedi with Bendu finding its way into the movies presumably in the form of Obi-Wan's alias on Tatoinne).
And Vadar originally told luke that Obi-wan killed his father. Not everything in the scripts are deffinite. They get changed as GL sees fit.
2. Darth Vaders title is Dark Lord of the Sith. For him to be a Dark Lord of the Sith there must be other Sith for him to be lord over. He cannot be Lord of the Sith over Palpatine as Palpatine is Vaders superior.
How about its just a title from a forgotten age? In the UK there is still a king/queen, but they really don't do anything....
3. Jango Fett was recruited to serve as a template for the clone army by Lord Tyrannus a decade prior to the events in Star Wars Episode II. At this time, there were already two Sith Lords, Sidious Palpatine and Maul. Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas presumably was also involved in this as someone erased the entry for Kamino from the Jedi library. That Maul and Dooku were concurrently involved with the Sith is supported in Christopher Lee's biography in which the actor attests thatDooku was to have manipulated the events leading to the confrontation between Quigon, Obi-Wan, and Maul.
This part is tricky. Potentially anyone could have said they wereTyrannus (atleast that is the feeling I got). Even palpatine himself (potentially). If whoever ordered the creation of the clones used their real name the jedi would have been on them like stink on poo. I'm not Star Wars expert, but the dooku manipulating part is fan speculation I believe.
4. In Episode III, when Palpatine urges Obi-Wan and Anakin to get assistance in confronting Dooku Obi-Wan replies "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords (pl) are our specialty." Since the only Sith lord that Obi-Wan and Anakin had confronted previously was Dooku, with very poor results, this indicates that Obi-Wan and Anakin had between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode III fought against other Sith against whom they were able to develop their "specialty" together. Additionally, the Sith are referred to in the plural after Dooku's death but prior to Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi. And there is a reference to a Lord Voss relevant to the Outer Rim Sieges, someone who may or may not be a Sith.
It could be heard as Obi-wan was talking about the jedi in general, not just anakin and Obi-wan. Since we did see the clone war cartoons, we do have a generally good idea on what occured between 2 and 3. Or Obi-wan might have though that the girl (I don't remember her name, she was the double saber wielding gray girl) was a sith and Darth Maul was deffinitly a sith so theres 2 sith right there. In conclusion to this part, I don't think anakin and Obi-wan went sith hunting.)
5. Even the most rigid interpretation of Yoda's comment in Episode I, that there are only two Sith, does not bind Palpatine after Episode III. It is an open question whether or not Palpatine chose to remain true to this tradition after Episode III and it is unanswered one way or the other in the movies. In fact, there is some indication that the Sith lords of the movies did share their knowledge with others more openly then many assume. General Grievous, for instance, was trained to use lightsabers, something he boastfully noted to Obi-Wan prior to their duel.
Wielding a lightsaber makes you nether a jedi nor a sith. Your just a guy who knows how to wield a saber. I also remember reading somewhere that Grievous was not a force sensitive alien when his natural body parrished.(sp)
From within the game:
1. There are numerous Sith already in the game. These are Sith NPC's associated with the Aurelia quests. They are neither master nor apprentices. They are simply Sith underlings of some kind.
Someone wasn't paying attention. Those were sith wannabes, like the girl in "the clone wars".
2. All dialogue should be given equal weight. If you must adhere to the belief that there are only two Sith because of Yoda's comment in Episode I, then by the very same logic there can be no Jedi in the game either as Yoda stated in ROTJ that Luke was the LAST OF THE JEDI. Beyond statements, there is no foundation whatsoever for bounty hunters hunting Jedi, yet this is a mechanism that has nothing to do with Star Wars that Sony chose to introduce exclusively for balancing the Jedi population. Bounty Hunters hunting Jedi was a programming choice, not something based on anything that occurred in the movies.
Yodais powerful, but I don't think he can "force sense" the ENTIRE galaxy for all jedi.
Don't forget that ROTJ was also made quite a long time ago, since then many things have changed, for example the Force has changed from a mystical power to something controlled by "Medi cells".
Additionally, there is no such thing as a "Dark" Jedi in the movie lore. The term is an oxymoron, like meat eating vegeterians. The closest thing to a "Dark" Jedi in the movies was, ever so briefly, Anakin prior to his betrayal. One might argue that even that the moment he sliced of Mace's arm he was, in effect, no longer a Jedi. There is some indication that there once were "Dark" Jedi who were the precursors to the Sith. These beings are far more unlikely then the Sith and have no logical foundation. How does one become a "Dark" Jedi if, by definition, Jedi are practitioners of the light side? I have an image of Yoda congratulating Anakin on his good "dark" deed of destroying the Jedi and conferring upon him, with distinction, the title of "Dark Jedi Master." Neither Palpatine nor Maul would have had the authority to confer this title on anyone since they themselves were never Jedi at all. It is surprising that many players have accepted this concept unquestioningly despite the inherent illogic of it based sheerly on the power of unfounded assumptions.
*whips out the nunchucks of doooom* WATAAAAHH
It is not an oxymoron. The movie does not dipict EVERYTHING in the universe or else we would never have swordsmen or Bio Engineers. Don't forget that in the movies jedi were practically non-exist so therefore dark jedi would be practically non-existent. We use EU to explain the parts not covered by the movies.
The rest is my interpretation of dark jedi vs sith. I haven't really dived deep into the Star Wars universe so I'm not positive.
A dark jedi is a jedi who has fallen from the orders gracies. He has disgraced himself by turning away from the ways of peace and wisdom and moved to the dark side of the force; revenge, greed, and rage. A sith on the other hand uses the dark side of the force to take over the universe/wipe all of them out.There are only two sith, but their are an infinite number of dark jedi.
A sith *IS* a dark jedi
A dark jedi is not necessarily a sith.
The way to reconcile this seems rather simple. There are are only two Sith, but the Sith Yoda was referring to were the Sith Lords that serve as the leadership of the Sith. In the present timeline, these two Sith lords are Vader and Palpatine. But just as there are other Jedi that do not sit in the Jedi council so too are there other Sith that are not Sith lords.
The core narrative element of Star Warshas always been the contrast between good and evil as symbolized by light and dark, Rebel and Empire, and Jedi and Sith. These contrasts are what define the Star Wars stories. Everything else exists within the context of these conflicts. They should be introduced into the game in a manner that is consistent with the movies, the story, and the themes of Star Wars.
Message Edited by Saber_X on 06-12-2005 09:06 PM
Message Edited by Tekcasualty on 06-13-2005 12:53 AM