Jedi Archive
Thread: AI what's the purpose after the ToOW nerf?
Wrong... If it was a chance to escape, then why did they add a snare to it to make sure you are locked in place????
Rinviero wrote:
Hulke wrote:
WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE PROFESSION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE MOST DAMAGE AND BE ABLE TO HOLDAGRO FOR THE GROUP WOULD HAVE A SKILL IN THE MASTER BOX THAT DROPS AGRO?
AI is a last ditch attempt to stay alive, and escape... It is not a method to tank high end mobs...
More nerfs? Lol sounds great, I don't use the skill anyways! You can even take it away for all I care. Would give me an extra slot on my toolbar for more stimpacks.
matthaustoplar wrote:
allow only ai once per combat sequence
At this point... Just take away the XP loss! As you can see, Jedi is now a normal profession that requires more work to obtain. Just drop the XP loss and make everyone happy. There will be no more running, no more hiding, no more complaining... he was hiding in his house all day long!!! nerf that! He was cloaked the entire time!!! nerf that!! You lose, you win... You shake hands and walk the other way without this anger of the 400k xp that you just lost that sends you to the forums with rage! Thats why the hate posts start flyin in!
AI was not meant for escape thats why the root was added. It was meant for a last stand for the Tank.... Remembe rthe whole circle diagram that we were moving toward during the CU? Mezzers,healers, tanks, ranged, nukers, melee etc... Having mobs loose aggro when AI goes into effect will remove Mdef from that tank role all together, that is unless they make the dominate mind more effective to counter the AI aggro break that may or may not come. Remember its still in testing nothing has been published. They need to loose this if Mdef's are to retain their tank role. I use it PVE until the healers can catch up on thier heals on me. The above posters are correct. This will kill other members in your group if the nerf stands.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
People are looking at this the wrong way. It has some good and some bad aspects.
AI is not designed to keep your group alive, it is designed to keep the Master Defender alive. Which it actually does even more now. First AI should not be something that a good MD in a group just runs up and hits. He should fight normal at first, healing himself and receiving heals. Only when they fall behind should he resort to AI. At which point, the Mob will now leave him alone. This means that the MD can now heal himself back to full and drop AI, he wont need to chain it. This means it will actually be easier on the Defenders Force bar.
Now a good group has communication, so they should know when AI is being hit. At this point another Tank draws agro (others then Jedi can tank too,) or they root and knockdown the mob away from the group. Then as soon as the MD is back off AI and healed up, he can start tanking again.
It's a nerf if you look at if from a bad group point of view, but actually better for the Master Defender. Good groups will still do ok.
The changes to Roots on high level mobs could have some impact though as well.
while I agree with everything you said, this means you need at least 1 other guy that has close to the same defenses as a MDEF in your group. Not a problem for some to find enough people but not everyone belongs to a large guild. I know in my hunting groups we have one rifleman 1 jedi, me that tanks and a healer. we havea load of fun PVE'ing and the like but do get behind in the heals and use AI once in a while. This isnt game breaking just a bothersome and can be left out. it serves no purpose that i can see to aid in the role as TANK. which is what MDEF is.
As another poster stated why give a aggro breaking skill to the master box of an aggro holding profession. Does not make sense.
Great points straker.
Message Edited by rickaf29 on 10-10-2005 07:01 PM
Straker_Atrella wrote:
People are looking at this the wrong way. It has some good and some bad aspects.
AI is not designed to keep your group alive, it is designed to keep the Master Defender alive. Which it actually does even more now. First AI should not be something that a good MD in a group just runs up and hits. He should fight normal at first, healing himself and receiving heals. Only when they fall behind should he resort to AI. At which point, the Mob will now leave him alone. This means that the MD can now heal himself back to full and drop AI, he wont need to chain it. This means it will actually be easier on the Defenders Force bar.
Now a good group has communication, so they should know when AI is being hit. At this point another Tank draws agro (others then Jedi can tank too,) or they root and knockdown the mob away from the group. Then as soon as the MD is back off AI and healed up, he can start tanking again.
It's a nerf if you look at if from a bad group point of view, but actually better for the Master Defender. Good groups will still do ok.
The changes to Roots on high level mobs could have some impact though as well.
You make some good points, but hereisthe common AI scenario that I have been thinking of:
You are attacking a difficult target(s). You are getting beat up fairly quickly and find that your healing cannot keep up to the blows being delivered, which isn't too uncommon. The target(s) you are fighting have lost a conciderable amount of health as well, but you are forced to use AI anyways. The target drops agro and does the +Retreat+. So basically your target regains the majority of their health and you are left with a lot less force.
Now I know somebody will say "but this is a grouping game now, no such thing as solo anymore". So I've prepared a common scenario for them as well. The enemy has taken your tank down to low health, forcing him or her to use AI. The enemy runs away again, but your team members becomethe new targets for the enemy andthey getincapacitated. Master defender heals incapacitated teamates, but target has once again used +Retreat+ because all agro has been lost from the AI and theincapacitations. Enemy has full health once again.
As you can see, these aren't far-fetched scenarios at all. Things like this happen to people all the time.
Rinviero wrote:
Hulke wrote:
WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE PROFESSION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE MOST DAMAGE AND BE ABLE TO HOLDAGRO FOR THE GROUP WOULD HAVE A SKILL IN THE MASTER BOX THAT DROPS AGRO?
AI is a last ditch attempt to stay alive, and escape... It is not a method to tank high end mobs...
ofc, i forgot the escape thing when im snared and can bearly move...
Ok... so AI no longer holds a mob. But dominate mind (think that's the skill name) draws aggro. I think they made it so that a MDefender with AI running won't be able to just stand there trading blows. I'm interested in seeing if the dominate mind will continue to draw aggro to you even with AI running.
Hulke wrote:
I realize that they did this so MDEF cant sit there and single handedly tank things that were never intended to be killed by a couple guys. IE MDEF uses AI and attacks while group blows away allowing you to take down anything.
But what in the hell is the purpose now?
I mean your snared, and now you can't hold agro even though you are the group tank.
NOT ONLY IS THIS A NERF BUT JESUS CHRIST IF YOU EVER USE IT THE REST OF YOUR GROUP COULD GET SLAUGHTERED. PEOPLE WILL HATE YOU FOR USING THIS SKILL IF YOU IMMEDIATLY DROP AGRO AND THEY DIE BECAUSE OF IT.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOE PLEASE FIND A DIFFERENT WAY TO FIX THIS.
INSTEAD OF THIS NERF WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THIS.
1. AI instantly takes agro from anything in range and holds it on you while it is active. No one else can take agro.
2.Snare stays as is
3. You get a 50% damage mitigation for incomeing damage and a 50% damage output reduction.
4. This way you can't use AI to solo things as your damage would be reduced
5. The group would still have to heal you because you can still technically incap its just that this helps to avoid incap as you would instantly take 50% less damage.
These are just a couple quick ideas and I realize they could use work but its a start to a better fix than what this would be. I mean master def should have some kind of agro hold like this anyway not a damn agro reducer. AI would be a better skill for a ranged prof than melee after this nerf.
Message Edited by Hulke on 10-10-2005 03:12 PM
Message Edited by Hulke on 10-10-2005 03:13 PM
Message Edited by KammaRocca on 10-10-2005 09:46 PM